Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Final – A credit card built for the 21st century

getfinal.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 381 posts

Re: Final – A credit card built for the 21st century

#251

Post by jack-r-abbit »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #187
chasing wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds exactly like my justification for stealing! Businesses usually have insurance to cover losses from theft. (And if they don't, that's on them.) And who's paying for that insurance? Right: Their customers. So it's kind of like: Unless you steal from them, they're stealing from you! Also, I don't like paying for stuff.

You're entitled to your opinion. Perhaps you'll understand the other side when your small business pops, you've got no income, and you exhaust any savings you have.

Now... imagine your small business popped, you had no income, and you exhausted all your savings... because too many of your customers didn't pay for the goods/services they obtained from your small business. That is quite the moral pickle to be in, if you ask me.

Re: Final – A credit card built for the 21st century

#252

Post by MWil »

AznHisoka wrote: post #125
pbreit wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disposable credit card numbers have been around for decades. The user experience has historically been miserable. Maybe this will be better. Doubt it.

It's been around, but the most user friendly way I found was through a Paypal plugin but they indespicably removed that years ago. Been looking for a more convenient method ever since. Signed up for Final, looking forward to it. Finally someone that wants to get this right.

Look up MaskMe - among other services like alternate phone numbers you can give out to spam/signups they have disposable CC numbers

Re: Final – A credit card built for the 21st century

#253

Post by jackmaney »

bicknergseng wrote: post #245
jackmaney wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never had a phone destroyed, but electronic devices are, in many ways, far more fragile than plastic cards. I would never want accessibility to absolutely everything tied to only one device, and I literally cannot imagine how anyone would consider this to be a good thing. "Oh crap, my phone fell into a puddle. Oh, well, guess I'll just buy a new one--oh, wait... Well, I could use a drink--oh, wait... Bah, let me…

The way it is now, you lose your keys and you're effectively homeless. This is why people have spare keys under mats. This is why backups are a good idea. Have everything on your phone, but still keep a spare key if you lock yourself out, keep a spare method of identification, keep a spare method of payment. I don't see why we would sacrifice redundancy when we consolidate to make things more convenient. Does the wor…

> Does the world end when you lose your keys or wallet now?

No.

> Then why would it things[sic] change if their form changes?

Because the forms are consolidated into one: if you had your way, losing one's phone could mean losing keys, ID, wallet, etc. It's replacing metal fucking keys--the only thing allowing you into your home (without breaking in)--with fragile electronics.

Oh, and what would happen if you had your way and someone lost their phone?

"Oh well, lemme make a call and see if I can get a replaceme--oh, wait..."

Replacing my ID, keys, and cards wouldn't be fun, but all of that would be a fucking pleasant walk in the park compared to replacing a phone containing all of those things.

Again, I find myself literally unable to comprehend how anyone could possibly think that this is anything but a horrible idea.

Re: Final – A credit card built for the 21st century

#254

Post by [deleted] »

jack-r-abbit wrote: post #251
toomuchtodo wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're entitled to your opinion. Perhaps you'll understand the other side when your small business pops, you've got no income, and you exhaust any savings you have.

Now... imagine your small business popped, you had no income, and you exhausted all your savings... because too many of your customers didn't pay for the goods/services they obtained from your small business. That is quite the moral pickle to be in, if you ask me.

[deleted]

Re: Final – A credit card built for the 21st century

#256

Post by eli »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #108
troupe wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe most people would say that when they agree to take money with a promise to repay it, they are under a moral obligation to do so.

So when an individual borrows and fails to repay, there is a moral hazard, but when a business declares bankruptcy and restructure, that's smart business? Debt is a contractual issue, not a moral one. As HackerNews entrepreneurs should keep in mind, its the ability to easily shed debt (and not be shackled to those debts for decades) in the US that creates the environment for startups to take the risks they do.

The moral obligation is to TRY to pay it back. I fully concede that it's not a black and white issue, but there's a big difference between refusing to pay a debt and being unable to pay a debt.

If you borrow money for any reason with the understanding that you'll pay it back, but you secretly intend to keep it all along, then you are doing something wrong (morally if not legally).

Re: Final – A credit card built for the 21st century

#257

Post by toomuchtodo »

eli wrote: post #256
toomuchtodo wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So when an individual borrows and fails to repay, there is a moral hazard, but when a business declares bankruptcy and restructure, that's smart business? Debt is a contractual issue, not a moral one. As HackerNews entrepreneurs should keep in mind, its the ability to easily shed debt (and not be shackled to those debts for decades) in the US that creates the environment for startups to take the risks they do.

The moral obligation is to TRY to pay it back. I fully concede that it's not a black and white issue, but there's a big difference between refusing to pay a debt and being unable to pay a debt. If you borrow money for any reason with the understanding that you'll pay it back, but you secretly intend to keep it all along, then you are doing something wrong (morally if not legally).

> If you borrow money for any reason with the understanding that you'll pay it back, but you secretly intend to keep it all along, then you are doing something wrong (morally if not legally).

We are in complete agreement then. To do otherwise would be, in my opinion, fraud.

Re: Final – A credit card built for the 21st century

#258

Post by eli »

20141008 wrote: post #207
eli wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all collections agencies are so sloppy and unscrupulous. If you do owe the money and they do have the documentation to support it, you may well have a judgement against you and that definitely will hurt your credit score. Some companies (like say gym membership) have internal collections departments that can be quite aggressive. They would certainly be able to back up any lawsuit. In general, you really want to t…

> In general, you really want to try to avoid being sued. In reality, companies will do almost anything to avoid suing you for small amounts of money. The financials don't make sense. E.g. how much gym debt would it take to justify a lawyer's fees to pursue you? Not less than several thousand dollars, probably much more.

Depends. I've personally been to small claims court and seen what appeared to be a staff attorney for Capital One suing dozens of people for overdue balances.

I'm pretty sure the big gyms that have in-house collections. I would imagine people signing a year contract and then changing their mind and trying to get out of it happens quite often.

Re: Final – A credit card built for the 21st century

#259

Post by jellicle »

troupe wrote: post #104
toomuchtodo wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debt isn't a moral obligation, and to somehow frame it as such is dubious at best. If you as a debt owner or servicer can't keep your books straight, you have absolutely no business attempting to collect on a debt. If you're taking someone to court or attempting to take their wages, you better be damn sure you're in the right.

I believe most people would say that when they agree to take money with a promise to repay it, they are under a moral obligation to do so.

The bible calls for a debt jubilee - forgiveness of all debts - every seven years. No such thing has happened in hundreds of years. So who acting immorally, again?

Re: Final – A credit card built for the 21st century

#260

Post by shampine »

drglitch wrote: post #223

As some have pointed out, Citi had this[1] since about 2004, Fleet/Bank of America [2] had it in their setup as well for as long as i can remember. The problem is going to be PCI compliance - the rules that govern merchant procedure for accepting physical credit cards. Specifically, the last 4 digits must be visually validated on the card and typed in to avoid cloned cards (chips largely solve this) in most stores. F…

Bank of America also has disposable numbers for their credit cards, one reason I still keep my card with them. You just pick how long the number is active for (min 1 month) and it spits out 16 digits. I use it for all my online transactions.
Post reply on HN