Final – A credit card built for the 21st century • Hacker News Board

Re: Final – A credit card built for the 21st century

#221

Post by yitchelle » Wed, Oct 08, 2014, 7:58 PM UTC

alkonaut wrote: post #155

makmanalp wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is too funny - my bank in Turkey ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garanti_Bank ) had this 10 years ago! I wonder why banks in the US are so ingrained in their ways and horribly slow at updating themselves. edit: They also had an SMS cash thing where you can "send" cash to anyone, which is really a code you can use at any ATM to redeem cash.

I was recently in the U.S. and saw a person use a paper cheque. I'm not joking.

I received two cheques from our landlord about two months ago. 1) I was surprise to get paper cheques 2) how surprising easy it was to deposit it into the bank.

The easy manner of depositing means that it is still quite common for them process cheques.

By the way, I live in a small German town that only got its first EC card (or cash card POS) about 10 years ago.

Re: Final – A credit card built for the 21st century

#222

Post by m3sh » Wed, Oct 08, 2014, 8:00 PM UTC

hippich wrote: post #175

makmanalp wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is too funny - my bank in Turkey ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garanti_Bank ) had this 10 years ago! I wonder why banks in the US are so ingrained in their ways and horribly slow at updating themselves. edit: They also had an SMS cash thing where you can "send" cash to anyone, which is really a code you can use at any ATM to redeem cash.

sterile environment is best for fast system growth, until parasites come over and try to exploit it. only then you need protection against it. united states in general enjoyed some time where people did little to defraud system and therefore number (and later exp date, later - cvv) was fine. You can't rely on people's integrity and morale now as a safe-guard for system. Same applies to paper checks by the way. In cas…

this and turkish people don't really have any money at all. so the only way to pay without any money is using credit cards. this is why turkey is a big market for cc companies and they try to use brand new stuff there to lure new customers.

Re: Final – A credit card built for the 21st century

#223

Post by drglitch » Wed, Oct 08, 2014, 8:00 PM UTC

As some have pointed out, Citi had this[1] since about 2004, Fleet/Bank of America [2] had it in their setup as well for as long as i can remember.

The problem is going to be PCI compliance - the rules that govern merchant procedure for accepting physical credit cards. Specifically, the last 4 digits must be visually validated on the card and typed in to avoid cloned cards (chips largely solve this) in most stores.

Furthermore, giving a new CC number to each transaction is going to deplete the pool of available CC numbers rather soon (as im sure everyone knows, CC number is not just random collection of 16 numbers 0-9).

As other people pointed out, this solves a non-problem: if i don't want to be liable for a fraudulent purchase, i just use a credit card, not a debit card. In case of CC fraud, it is the MERCHANT who is responsible, not the customer or the bank.

Monitoring software that flags "odd" purchases is all that's needed - and banks have been running such things for ages.

Yes, there is hassle if your CC gets lifted/swiped, but chances are, its not an evil hacker doing it, but that cute waitress at your local bar with a $30 ghost reader in her hand.

Unless the physical card generates a new number on EACH swipe, it is just another example of technology looking to complicate an otherwise streamlined process.

/rant over :)

[1] https://www.cardbenefits.citi.com/Products/Virtual-Account-N... [2] http://lifehacker.com/5831160/use-virtual-credit-card-number... [3] http://www.getcreditcardnumbers.com/

Re: Final – A credit card built for the 21st century

#224

Post by chasing » Wed, Oct 08, 2014, 8:01 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #187

chasing wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds exactly like my justification for stealing! Businesses usually have insurance to cover losses from theft. (And if they don't, that's on them.) And who's paying for that insurance? Right: Their customers. So it's kind of like: Unless you steal from them, they're stealing from you! Also, I don't like paying for stuff.

You're entitled to your opinion. Perhaps you'll understand the other side when your small business pops, you've got no income, and you exhaust any savings you have.

I agree! Paying for things you've taken from corporations only helps perpetuate the Global Corporate Hegemony. Racking up a bunch of debts and then making excuses about why you aren't obligated to pay them is probably actually more morally correct than paying for the things you take.

Unless you take things from people. People are different. Then you should pay for those things by bleeding all over the snow or whatever. (I don't know how money works in your country. In the US we usually just use dollars. There's not much snow right now and having everyone's blood everywhere can lead to public health problems. See also: Ebola.)

Anyway. Thank god there are no people at corporations. And thank god all corporations are the size of Walmart and can easily withstand financial losses due to non-payment.

Re: Final – A credit card built for the 21st century

#225

Post by balls187 » Wed, Oct 08, 2014, 8:02 PM UTC

mcherm wrote: post #143

toomuchtodo wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debt isn't a moral obligation, and to somehow frame it as such is dubious at best. If you as a debt owner or servicer can't keep your books straight, you have absolutely no business attempting to collect on a debt. If you're taking someone to court or attempting to take their wages, you better be damn sure you're in the right.

In my personal moral code, most debts ARE a moral obligation. Perhaps your moral code is different from mine.

Agreed. But I wouldn't say that MOST debts are a moral obligation.

If you borrow money, and you agree to pay it back, there should be a good faith effort to do so.

But that is only one type of debt.

In the US, where I live, Apartments are incredibly bad about charging fees after you move out, and give you very little recourse before sending you to collections.

Parking tickets, and red light camera tickets are huge sources of revenue for the city, and Seattle uses them when they need to increase city coffers.

I look at it this way, if they're not going to play by the rules, I won't either.

Re: Final – A credit card built for the 21st century

#226

Post by TheMagicHorsey » Wed, Oct 08, 2014, 8:02 PM UTC

My Bank of America credit card account has had this feature for years. Its called ShopSafe. I use it all the time.

Re: Final – A credit card built for the 21st century

#227

Post by balls187 » Wed, Oct 08, 2014, 8:03 PM UTC

arfrank wrote: post #90

darkstar999 wrote: post #16

bigboxesofwine.gov doesn't exist. I am disappoint. This is awesome though. It's like what 33mail.com does for email addresses, but even better.

We started working on all the sites but ran out of time...my favorite is http://deluxesweaters.biz

Well done. I paused the video to punch that into the URL.

I'm excited to try out Final.

Re: Final – A credit card built for the 21st century

#228

Post by aet » Wed, Oct 08, 2014, 8:03 PM UTC

As a U.S. citizen, next time I hear about a major credit card breach I will definitely relax as federal regulation limits my liability to $50 (and that is if the physical card is stolen). If only my credit card number is stolen, I have ZERO liability.

http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0213-lost-or-stolen-cre...

Re: Final – A credit card built for the 21st century

#229

Post by bicknergseng » Wed, Oct 08, 2014, 8:04 PM UTC

jackmaney wrote: post #97

bicknergseng wrote: post #88

"A credit card built for the 21st century" is an oxymoron. It's like saying a car phone built for the 21st century. For the love of all that is holy and sacred, please eliminate the need to carry cards at all. Just let me pay with my phone. Put my drivers license, health insurance card, membership cards, gift cards, car keys, and payment methods into my phone. All of this already exists in some form or another, but A…

Dear gods, please eliminate any ability to pay with my phone! Cards are fragile enough. I don't want to lose access to all of my money if I accidentally drop my phone the wrong way. EDIT: Not to mention my ID and keys! I'm honestly not sure I could think of a worse idea.

For you, butterfingers. I've never accidentally destroyed a phone. I have left credit cards and wallets and IDs and keys at bars and hotels. I have had CC numbers used by scammers online, requiring I call my credit card company, figure out what expenses are fraudulent, cancel the card, and have them send another. Magnet strips die all the time. Then I am stuck without one for a week.

New car keys are $500+.

The DMV. Oh God, the DMV.

A phone is not only trackable, but remote wipeable. Order a new one online and pick it up right then in a store or an Amazon same day box or something. All lost information restored in a few minutes via the internet.

Re: Final – A credit card built for the 21st century

#230

Post by nkozyra » Wed, Oct 08, 2014, 8:04 PM UTC

20141008 wrote: post #189

toomuchtodo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint. If you get taken to collections over a trivial amount ( Have to go to court for collections? The first words out of your mouth need to be, "Verify the debt." Ask them to produce the document you signed and agreed to. In the vast majority of cases, without this, your case will be dropped with prejudice. This is based on research I did while dealing with a personal mortgage "issue". http://www.thisamerica…

Actually, the question you should ask is 'where is your witness?' - the lender needs to have more than documentary proof of your debt. Here's how the process plays out: When you owe a debt what happens is the lender will contact you a few times and then, if you don't pay, they will sell the debt on to people who are in the collections business. And over the course of a year or two your debt will likely change hands m…

On point #1, I can assure you the actual person / officer who witnessed you sign for a loan does not have to be present. In fact, the vast majority of debt involves no such person - a lending contract is often undertaken electronically. What they will show is the contractual agreement of terms with your signature (physical or electronic). The original lender will not be there and in fact no longer "owns" the debt, having sold it to a collector. Even the collection agency won't be there, they generally hire someone locally (you must be sued in your location, not theirs) to be present in civil court.

On point #2, also false. Bad debt impacts your FICO score - often severely - but that impact is lessened with time. A 90-day or 120-day late (effectively a charge off) can ding a score 20 - 150 points easily depending on other credit factors. Shrugging your shoulders and saying "this won't be that bad" is not a good policy. While the record is not "permanent" (7 years for standard debt, 10 years for bankruptcies), they can have a significant impact.