Reddit CEO Calls Out Former Reddit Employee on Reddit • Hacker News Board

Re: Reddit CEO Calls Out Former Reddit Employee on Reddit

#141

Post by dreamweapon » Mon, Oct 06, 2014, 7:59 PM UTC

differentView wrote: post #128

krigi wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may have not been done for vindictive reasons, but it was definitely done for the wrong reason. This shows a clear lack of leadership abilities on the part of Yishan. I know people love a Jobsian dick in charge of tech companies (I use that loosely with reddit; they're an entertainment company), but that era is over. Show some professionalism even if someone is unprofessional toward you and your company.

What should Yishan have said?

The best thing to have said? Really, nothing at all. There was no reason that anyone in the company needed to chime in and acknowledge (let alone contradict) what this guy was saying.

Re: Reddit CEO Calls Out Former Reddit Employee on Reddit

#142

Post by TeMPOraL » Mon, Oct 06, 2014, 8:00 PM UTC

kazinator wrote: post #88

arram wrote: post #24

Umm. It was pretty clearly not done for vindictive reasons. The guy lied about why he was let go and put Reddit in the awkward position of either saying nothing and letting people believe they're a shitty workplace that fires people for disagreeing with management, or telling the truth about why the guy was fired (not laid off.) Frankly, he brought this on himself by forcing Reddit into choosing between two sucky opt…

Fallacy of the excluded middle: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fallacy_of_the_exc... The choice is not between saying nothing, and completely devastating that person. Surely there is a third (or even fourth, fifth) alternative. Also, saying nothing doesn't lead to the belief it is a shitty workplace. Just because someone posting in a forum that he's been fired from Company X for a reason he doesn't underst…

True in theory, but in practice, even HN is full of comments like "Google is evil because [link to a random unfounded speculation/whining of ex-Googler]" and people believe them uncritically.

Re: Reddit CEO Calls Out Former Reddit Employee on Reddit

#143

Post by mwfunk » Mon, Oct 06, 2014, 8:00 PM UTC

demachina wrote: post #75

gatsby wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"When an employee is dismissed from employment at a company, the policy of almost every company (including reddit) is not to comment, either publicly or internally. This is because companies have no desire to ruin someone's future employment prospects by broadcasting to the world that they were fired. In return, the polite expectation is that the employee will not go shooting their mouth off about the company especia…

If nothing else the Streisand effect insures Reddit is going to get about a million times more bad exposure, now that its going viral, than they would have when it was just a thread from a disgruntled ex employee. People were starting to question whether Reddit had a good CEO and corprate culture already, now its certain to gain momentum.

I came away from this with more respect for Reddit and it's CEO than I had before, so painting this as bad publicity for them isn't just something that can be assumed here. What the CEO said didn't seem inflammatory or over the top at all, it was just the facts with little or no vindictiveness. I'm not sure where anyone's sympathy for the former employee is coming from, or how anyone reading what the CEO wrote could parse it as the childish, unprofessional flame that it's being described as.

A lot of people have a natural tendency to always side with the underdog regardless of the facts of the situation, especially when it's one guy vs. any sort of institution (a company, school, whatever). That probably says something nice about humanity, but it doesn't make it any truthier.

Re: Reddit CEO Calls Out Former Reddit Employee on Reddit

#144

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 06, 2014, 8:00 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #101

jcampbell1 wrote: post #41

I really don't like this. The problem is that Yishan never explicitly states that there was an exit interview, and the reason for the termination was clearly explained. He could have a half assed HR person that gave some bullshit reason like "you are not a good fit", and the ex-employee is legitimately confused about why he was terminated. The other potential issue is that employees go into shock when they are told t…

In California, a termination conversation usually begins and ends like this: "Thank you for your time, your services are no longer required. Please collect your belongings." Anything else opens the company up to liability.

[deleted]

Re: Reddit CEO Calls Out Former Reddit Employee on Reddit

#145

Post by DanBC » Mon, Oct 06, 2014, 8:02 PM UTC

I'd love to know what the inappropriate interview qusstio s were (if that bit is true).

Re: Reddit CEO Calls Out Former Reddit Employee on Reddit

#146

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 06, 2014, 8:02 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #142

kazinator wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fallacy of the excluded middle: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fallacy_of_the_exc... The choice is not between saying nothing, and completely devastating that person. Surely there is a third (or even fourth, fifth) alternative. Also, saying nothing doesn't lead to the belief it is a shitty workplace. Just because someone posting in a forum that he's been fired from Company X for a reason he doesn't underst…

True in theory, but in practice, even HN is full of comments like "Google is evil because [link to a random unfounded speculation/whining of ex-Googler]" and people believe them uncritically .

[deleted]

Re: Reddit CEO Calls Out Former Reddit Employee on Reddit

#147

Post by Iftheshoefits » Mon, Oct 06, 2014, 8:03 PM UTC

Karunamon wrote: post #79

penprog wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, this post only makes reddit look like a very unprofessional workplace.

Maybe it's not "professional", where that word has the common meaning of avoiding saying hard truths on the grounds that someone's feelings and/or political position might be hurt. This significantly elevates Reddit, IMO. Their CEO acts like a fucking human being instead of a politicized, sanitized, pretentious, weasel-wording sock puppet like so many other CEOs. You have no idea how much respect I have for this.

Why should anybody believe either the CEO or the ex-employee based only on their word? You're assuming the CEO has all the actual facts and is being honest about them. I can envision many scenarios where he may actually have cause to believe he has the actual facts, when he doesn't (e.g. colleagues lying about the employee's resistance to change, performance, etc.).

Re: Reddit CEO Calls Out Former Reddit Employee on Reddit

#148

Post by waterlesscloud » Mon, Oct 06, 2014, 8:04 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #142

kazinator wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fallacy of the excluded middle: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fallacy_of_the_exc... The choice is not between saying nothing, and completely devastating that person. Surely there is a third (or even fourth, fifth) alternative. Also, saying nothing doesn't lead to the belief it is a shitty workplace. Just because someone posting in a forum that he's been fired from Company X for a reason he doesn't underst…

True in theory, but in practice, even HN is full of comments like "Google is evil because [link to a random unfounded speculation/whining of ex-Googler]" and people believe them uncritically .

All the CEO's response accomplishes for me is prove the accusation that was out there.

The ex-employee implied management doesn't like criticism. Management then completely overreacts to criticism.

Re: Reddit CEO Calls Out Former Reddit Employee on Reddit

#149

Post by peterwwillis » Mon, Oct 06, 2014, 8:05 PM UTC

ugk wrote: post #118

kazinator wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fallacy of the excluded middle: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fallacy_of_the_exc... The choice is not between saying nothing, and completely devastating that person. Surely there is a third (or even fourth, fifth) alternative. Also, saying nothing doesn't lead to the belief it is a shitty workplace. Just because someone posting in a forum that he's been fired from Company X for a reason he doesn't underst…

Sure it would be nice to have other options, but the reality of social media and group-think means they could really only say nothing or say everything. I don't like it, but to deny that is a dangerous gamble for any company.

Uh, no. Social psychology is a complicated subject and there is no way to distill 'social media and group-think' into a single set of choices for all situations. Most companies say nothing, but if they do say something, it certainly isn't a good idea to seem vindictive when you do so, and is an especially bad idea to do it on a public forum. Luckily they know their audience well and being a jackass is applauded, so their position wins - as long as he can't convince people their response isn't genuine. Group dynamics and public opinion can get as complex as chess.

Re: Reddit CEO Calls Out Former Reddit Employee on Reddit

#150

Post by jsmthrowaway » Mon, Oct 06, 2014, 8:05 PM UTC

sama wrote: post #26

thebiglebrewski wrote: post #2

Aw man. This is totally gonna get taken down by YC management/altman...

obviously not going to take it down, but it has 6 flags in 36 minutes (a very high number), and with a few more it will fall off the front page.

Since the flag button seems to operate as a super downvote (and its UI is ostensibly "get the mods' attention" unless you know this) do you feel like the current system is useful? Should flag be a super downvote, or should it just get your attention? Is "both" useful?

I resist clicking flag because I know how hard it hits a story, and based on what you're saying, it seems like people are pretty free with flagging (which might be affecting controversial stories inordinately). Not that you'd compare your UI to Reddit's, but: Reddit's "report" function gets the mods' attention but does not impact the submission, to my knowledge. Recently, to cull people reporting things they just don't like, there's now a modal that pops up when you click it to demand a reason.