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Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts

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121–130 of 154 posts

Re: Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts

#121
post #119

What books or video lectures of Alan Watts are must read or watch? Or anything Zen/Buddhism related for that matter.

Alan Watts' The Way of Zen[1] is a great, rather iconoclastic, introduction to Zen and one if his best works. Another wonderful read is D.T. Suzuki's Zen and Japanese Culture[2]. And R.H. Blyth's Zen in English Literature and Oriental Classics is a jewell of a book.[3]

[1] http://www.amazon.com/The-Way-Zen-Alan-Watts/dp/0375705104# [2] http://www.amazon.com/Zen-Japanese-Culture-Bollingen-Series/... [3] http://www.amazon.com/Zen-English-Literature-Oriental-Classi...

Re: Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts

#122
post #55

If you're interested in understanding zen but don't know where to start, "The Book" by Alan Watts is a fantastic SHORT read that will give you a powerful framework from which to build your meditative practice, and hopefully structure a happier, more fulfilling lifestyle. To appeal to the western mind, here are some tangible benefits I have achieved(And you can too) through meditation and zen: * More appreciation for…

I would add the free, short, book "Mindfulness in Plain English". It changed my life. Here is the PDF: http://www.urbandharma.org/pdf2/Mindfulness%20in%20Plain%20E...

"Mindfulness in Plain English" is real and original Zen Buddhism, highly recommended.

Re: Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts

#123
I've just finished Waking Up by Sam Harris and The Trauma of Everyday Life by Mark Epstien. Both of these books are fantastic and really put the answers to the "Why Meditate" question front and center.

Re: Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts

#124
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But meditation is not the way to solve problems in yourself and it is therefore not a way to learn the art of living. The proof is that there is no clear definition of what life is through anyone who teaches meditation. That's not a proof of anything. You do not need a clear definition of the goal for a method to help you approach the goal; you need a method that helps you approach the goal. I am also curious as wh…

> That's not a proof of anything. You do not need a clear definition of the goal for a method to help you approach the goal; you need a method that helps you approach the goal. Suppose you say you're practicing and teaching mathematics but you cannot tell me what mathematics is. How can I trust that you know anything about what you are teaching? > I am also curious as why you believe meditation is not a way to solve…

> Suppose you say you're practicing and teaching mathematics but you cannot tell me what mathematics is. How can I trust that you know anything about what you are teaching?

That is perfectly fine. But it does not prove anything remotely close to what you stated.

> The burden of proof is on the person who says that something exists, not the person who says that they have not yet found evidence of the thing's existence.

Now you are just being difficult. I did not ask you to prove anything. I said I was curious as to why you believe it is not way to solve problems, in the face of a huge number of people who have practical experience saying it is.

> If you have some evidence in your life quality that meditation has helped you, we should confirm what the concrete benefit is.

A concrete benefit is reduced stress levels. And this is a concrete benefit that has had plenty of research to confirm it.

> What I claim here is that there is a huge difference between the practice of meditation that people are learning and teaching in modern times, and the specifics of the method of self-reflection that Gautama Buddha guided his disciples to make efforts to undergo.

This is a very different claim from what you made earlier.

> However, I don't know you yet, and it would be a mistake of mine to share his real teaching with you if I don't confirm how genuine you are.

This is just pure, utter bullshit.

> To be clear, no, I do not mean that meditation is not sufficient by itself. I mean that meditation is not something that makes you closer to Enlightenment. Enlightenment has very strict preconditions and meditation is not a teaching that you can practice which helps you fulfill those conditions.

This was not the claim I was responding to. I was responding to your specific claim that Gautama Buddha did not teach that meditation is the way to enlightenment. This was also the entirety of the context for my use of the term "nirvana". If you have other beliefs with respect to what enlightenment and nirvana means, that's an entirely different subject. While I practice meditation, my interest in Buddhism beyond that is one of a general interest in philosophy - I'm not a Buddhist.

> So I would like to see how you respond before telling you more.

I did not ask you to tell me more, I questioned specific claims you made that to me directly disagree with facts, and you avoided answering the questions as best you can. That to me tells me I'd waste my time listening to anything more.

Re: Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts

#125
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would add the free, short, book "Mindfulness in Plain English". It changed my life. Here is the PDF: http://www.urbandharma.org/pdf2/Mindfulness%20in%20Plain%20E...

"Mindfulness in Plain English" is real and original Zen Buddhism, highly recommended.

The book is not about this variety of Buddhism; Zen is a school of Mahayana; the book discusses Theravada. This is mentioned in the book at some ponit.

Re: Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts

#126
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how else do I do Zen? (That is a serious question!)

Zen is meditation first school of Buddhism. You must learn to do zazen (zen meditation). In other words, sit down and shut up. If you want to become Buddha, do what Buddha did and don't just listen and think about what he said. I'm myself a Zen Buddhist, I train with a teacher and have spend time zen training in a zen temple and attend sesshins regularly. I'm also very secular and atheist person who don't like organi…

I read a book a while ago about hynduism that said that buddists don't get it: Yes, budda achieved "illumination" by "sitting down and shutting up" (meditanting), but that is not, by any means, the only way to achieve illumination.

I think the author was that Osho guy...

Re: Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The strange ritualistic culture is merely a means by which Zen propagates itself (forward momentum in time) and not the "thing" itself. In my own words you should meditate because with practice one builds a refuge within stillness. Knowledge of this refuge changes the way you feel about circumstances and mental phenomena (motion). The change just feels right, like a lessening of burden, but it takes practice, that's…

Just as a thought experiment: if you could take a pill that did all this for you, would you still do the practice?

In actual fact I did take a pill that did this for me.. that is.. thrusted me into a state of mind akin to some of what can be found in concentration states. That was what provided for me the impetus to explore meditation because after a certain MDMA experience I suddenly felt that "now I know" that there's a more clear, or natural feeling which conscious awareness can navigate to. It was unfortunately a fleeting experience, and taking more of the same substance did not guarantee a return trip to the same state.

I eventually discovered a way to approach this state without drugs, it has to do with studying the Buddha Dhamma and practicing based on the teachings preserved in the Pali cannon, safeguarded by the Theravada lineage.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.22.0.than.html ^ if you ctrl-f and search this text for the string "And what is right mindfulness?" then you will be onto something.

Re: Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes his criticism just boils down to appeal to authority.

Exactly. Practitioners of Zen Buddhism believe that enlightenment is transmitted from one who is enlightened to one who is not. With only very rare exceptions, it requires an authority to transmit. People who think they're practicing Zen without a trained instructor are just deluding themselves.

>People who think they're practicing Zen without a trained instructor are just deluding themselves.

How can a new practitioner know if the instructor is actually enlightened or is only saying they are enlightened?

Re: Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts

#129
One should judge a tree by it's fruits.

If Alan Watt's enlightenment didn't prevent him from being an alcoholic who couldn't take care of his family, then I don't think that is an enlightenment worth pursuing.

The Buddha was adamant about this fact: anything that depends on conditions (for it's appearance or maintenance) is not enlightenment.

This leads me to believe that the author's experience, however delightful, was not enlightenment.

I wish the author well, but I don't think he understands Zen or Buddhism.

Re: Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts

#130

If you're interested in understanding zen but don't know where to start, "The Book" by Alan Watts is a fantastic SHORT read that will give you a powerful framework from which to build your meditative practice, and hopefully structure a happier, more fulfilling lifestyle. To appeal to the western mind, here are some tangible benefits I have achieved(And you can too) through meditation and zen: * More appreciation for…

My personal favorite zen book is Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind by Shunryu Suzuki.

I found it not to beat around the bush the way other books do.

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