Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts • Hacker News Board

Re: Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts

#91

Post by smutticus » Sun, Oct 05, 2014, 10:57 PM UTC

rsanheim wrote: post #67

smutticus wrote: post #60

It needs to be stated that most practitioners of Zen Buddhism, in both the east and the west, consider Alan Watts to be misinformed about Zen. Some might even call him a charlatan. I studied religious history as an undergrad and one conversation specifically comes to mind. I asked my Japanese humanities professor what most eastern Zen practitioners thought of western Zen practitioners. She responded by saying that mo…

> It needs to be stated that most practitioners of Zen Buddhism, in both the east and the west, consider Alan Watts to be misinformed about Zen. Some might even call him a charlatan. Citation needed please. Watts certainly has his flaws, one of which was that he simply wrote and spoke so much that I think some of the material suffers and becomes repetitive. He always took more of a wide view of religions (east and we…

Alan Watts is regularly given as the prototypical example of 'beat zen' which is recognized as a debased form of Zen. This is discussed in the book I reference above by Wong Kiew Kit.

This is not my opinion per se. It is the opinion of many Zen masters. Just look at the criticisms section in Alan Watt's Wikipedia article. D. T. Suzuki being one of them.

However, having said all that, I still think the world is a better place because Alan Watts existed. Even if misinformed about many Zen concepts, he has brought joy to many people, and interested many people in Zen.

Re: Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts

#92

Post by linuxhansl » Sun, Oct 05, 2014, 10:58 PM UTC

dominotw wrote: post #64

orasis wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would add the free, short, book "Mindfulness in Plain English". It changed my life. Here is the PDF: http://www.urbandharma.org/pdf2/Mindfulness%20in%20Plain%20E...

What exactly is mindfulness in simple terms? How is different from concentration?

Mindfulness is awareness.

When eating you're aware that you are eating. When seeing something you are aware that you are seeing something. When enjoying the sunset you're aware you're enjoying the sunset. When thinking you're aware that you are thinking. When selfish you are aware of that. When sad you are aware that you are sad... And so on.

On some level it's like "seeing the matrix". Everything is clear, no longer overlaid by thoughts of gain or loss. No more "what's in it for me?"

Everything is wondrous. Everything is just there. There are no questions.

Wow... This just blurted out. Anyway, that's what it means to me.

Re: Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts

#93

Post by linuxhansl » Sun, Oct 05, 2014, 11:05 PM UTC

A book that liked a lot is "Buddhism Plain and Simple", by Steve Hagen.

It manages well to steer clear of all cultural trappings and mysticism and just gives an introduction into the core ideas of Buddhism (which as Hagen points out isn't even an -ism).

Re: Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts

#94

Post by nether » Sun, Oct 05, 2014, 11:15 PM UTC

In this moment, I am euphoric.

Re: Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts

#95

Post by Lambdanaut » Sun, Oct 05, 2014, 11:19 PM UTC

linuxhansl wrote: post #92

dominotw wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is mindfulness in simple terms? How is different from concentration?

Mindfulness is awareness. When eating you're aware that you are eating. When seeing something you are aware that you are seeing something. When enjoying the sunset you're aware you're enjoying the sunset. When thinking you're aware that you are thinking. When selfish you are aware of that. When sad you are aware that you are sad... And so on. On some level it's like "seeing the matrix". Everything is clear, no longer…

That was beautiful and spot on. I see it exactly the same way.

I certainly can't claim to always be like that, but I can attain the feeling quite often.

Re: Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts

#96

Post by Sophistifunk » Mon, Oct 06, 2014, 12:14 AM UTC

dominotw wrote: post #62

nabla9 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zen is meditation first school of Buddhism. You must learn to do zazen (zen meditation). In other words, sit down and shut up. If you want to become Buddha, do what Buddha did and don't just listen and think about what he said. I'm myself a Zen Buddhist, I train with a teacher and have spend time zen training in a zen temple and attend sesshins regularly. I'm also very secular and atheist person who don't like organi…

I apologize if this is a rude question. But what do you get out of doing all this? I went to a zen Buddhism workshop a few years ago and it all felt very strangely ritualistic and bizarre. I just didn't see the point of it. Why should I be doing zen or any other form of meditation?

Because you want to. If not, don't.

Re: Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts

#97

Post by Steven_Bukal » Mon, Oct 06, 2014, 12:28 AM UTC

jjb123 wrote: post #87

jschwartzi wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cringed every time he referenced Physics. It's something I've seen other philosophers do in an attempt to legitimize their beliefs by implying that they codify the natural order. In truth, dynamic emptiness has absolutely nothing to do with quantum froth, which could be described using any objects and still make sense. This concept of some unseen physical manifestation of the model arises because of the terms a the…

Truth is not to be found by picking everything to pieces like a spoilt child. -from this very article

Why not? Picking everything to pieces is exactly what those people (theoretical and practical scientists) who seem to have the most success in approximating truth do. These are the methods that best produce accurate predictions about the future and best produce designs for new technologies that actually work.

Re: Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts

#98

Post by zerouniverse » Mon, Oct 06, 2014, 12:57 AM UTC

dominotw wrote: post #62

nabla9 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zen is meditation first school of Buddhism. You must learn to do zazen (zen meditation). In other words, sit down and shut up. If you want to become Buddha, do what Buddha did and don't just listen and think about what he said. I'm myself a Zen Buddhist, I train with a teacher and have spend time zen training in a zen temple and attend sesshins regularly. I'm also very secular and atheist person who don't like organi…

I apologize if this is a rude question. But what do you get out of doing all this? I went to a zen Buddhism workshop a few years ago and it all felt very strangely ritualistic and bizarre. I just didn't see the point of it. Why should I be doing zen or any other form of meditation?

The strange ritualistic culture is merely a means by which Zen propagates itself (forward momentum in time) and not the "thing" itself.

In my own words you should meditate because with practice one builds a refuge within stillness. Knowledge of this refuge changes the way you feel about circumstances and mental phenomena (motion). The change just feels right, like a lessening of burden, but it takes practice, that's the thing. The rituals and calligraphy are not the thing.

Re: Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts

#99

Post by justinpombrio » Mon, Oct 06, 2014, 1:05 AM UTC

linuxhansl wrote: post #92

dominotw wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is mindfulness in simple terms? How is different from concentration?

Mindfulness is awareness. When eating you're aware that you are eating. When seeing something you are aware that you are seeing something. When enjoying the sunset you're aware you're enjoying the sunset. When thinking you're aware that you are thinking. When selfish you are aware of that. When sad you are aware that you are sad... And so on. On some level it's like "seeing the matrix". Everything is clear, no longer…

You describe it perfectly.

It's been a long while since I've experienced that, but you describe it perfectly.

Re: Zen Buddhism and Alan Watts

#100

Post by zerouniverse » Mon, Oct 06, 2014, 1:14 AM UTC

Estragon wrote: post #83

ayx wrote: post #3

From the article: "The world is not a logically consistent one, but a profoundly paradoxical one. Again, this is illustrated in science, which shows that two things can be one at the same time — light, for instance, acts as both a particle and a wave." I don't understand the need for constantly interspersing an otherwise flowing article with references to science. It feels like the author thinks that the authenticity…

> I don't understand the need for constantly interspersing > an otherwise flowing article with references to science. It's just that that was what sold spirituality back in the day. Even though it seems tired and forced now, it was a very easy path to popularity.

One should take into account the fact that Watts was presenting his material to an audience of western intellectuals who had been so deeply indoctrinated into "scientific orthodoxy" that one really had no chance of getting anything across if one did not choose to invoke science. I don't see this as any different than the Buddha choosing to give teachings using concepts familiar to the brahmins of his time.