Why women leave tech: It's the culture, not because 'math is hard' • Hacker News Board

Re: Why women leave tech: It's the culture, not because 'math is hard'

#11

Post by forkmeongithub » Sat, Oct 04, 2014, 12:38 AM UTC

wahern wrote: post #8

forkmeongithub wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not?

Have you ever lived in a foreign country? Specifically one where the culture is drastically different, or where your ethnicity stands out? I have. And it can be draining, no matter your constitution, and even without any identifiable prejudice directed at you. It's part of human nature. Civilization takes work. Things like democracy don't simply pop into existence. It takes an evolution of culture. Male-dominated wor…

I agree with you that things like this take work. But I also feel like it's sentiments like the parent comment that lead to the problem in the first place. Like you mentioned, male-dominated workplaces need to meet women in the middle, but how is that possible when they are completely unsympathetic, as the above comment seems to be?

Re: Why women leave tech: It's the culture, not because 'math is hard'

#12

Post by prostoalex » Sat, Oct 04, 2014, 6:08 AM UTC

wahern wrote: post #6

cpncrunch wrote: post #4

I worked for a lot of tech companies in the UK, and all the companies had women project managers and developers without any discrimination that I could see (I'm male). It probably helps that the UK has mandatory maternity leave, and the company must employ you again after you come back from leave. I now live in Canada, and it has similar maternity benefits. Basically the problem is that you live in a country where pe…

The U.S. has mandatory maternity leave as well. The problem isn't getting time off of work. The problem is that you don't get paid. The problem is that you don't get a salary increase because your managers, knowing you're a recent mother, have expectations that your productivity will drop more than a man with a newborn. It looks like the U.K. has solved the getting paid part, though: https://www.gov.uk/maternity-pay-…

Ukraine mandates paid leave, which can be extended for up to 3 years (with partial pay), which created an unintended consequence - it's extremely hard for a young woman to get hired, and it's next to impossible for a young woman with a hint of pregnancy to get a job.

There are anti-discrimination laws, but proving anything in court beyond reasonable doubt is time-, money- and energy-consuming.

Re: Why women leave tech: It's the culture, not because 'math is hard'

#13

Post by jrock08 » Sun, Oct 05, 2014, 9:21 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #2

Article should be titled: "Why parents leave tech: It's the culture" That "not because 'math is hard'" part is extremely trolly and click-baiting. Also kind of sexist (as the article itself is making that implication out of the blue). It is also never touched upon in the article (i.e. that isn't a real quote, just a fiction for the title's own sake). I actually like the article, and agree with many of its points and…

Except that male parents don't leave tech. So it's not why parents leave tech, it's why moms leave tech. And since 81% of women will have a child by the time they are 44 [1] this is a woman's issue.

[1] https://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/facts_for_...

Re: Why women leave tech: It's the culture, not because 'math is hard'

#14

Post by ninavizz » Tue, Oct 07, 2014, 9:10 AM UTC

forkmeongithub wrote: post #11

wahern wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever lived in a foreign country? Specifically one where the culture is drastically different, or where your ethnicity stands out? I have. And it can be draining, no matter your constitution, and even without any identifiable prejudice directed at you. It's part of human nature. Civilization takes work. Things like democracy don't simply pop into existence. It takes an evolution of culture. Male-dominated wor…

I agree with you that things like this take work. But I also feel like it's sentiments like the parent comment that lead to the problem in the first place. Like you mentioned, male-dominated workplaces need to meet women in the middle, but how is that possible when they are completely unsympathetic, as the above comment seems to be?

It's not about sympathy, rather its about empathy. And listening. And mindfulness. Not skills the "ninja coder rockstar" person in their 20s, is likely to either have naturally, or to seek cultivation of. These are cultural problems, not of one "ism" or another.

Problems that are also in part born from young STEM academic over-achievers leaping from mid-degree coursework, and into the fast-paced world of startuptopia. The gap skipped over, is that one of the slower, social & personal-growth experience college life rigors our emotional skills through. That humanities coursework gives us tools of insight into the human condition, to work from. That shitty part-time jobs in food service or retail, teach us how to have a work ethic and value the work of others, through all involved parties being paid degradingly low wages, doing shit work for uncaring managers, but then relishing what little bits of wonder the crappy paychecks make possible after all the personal-growth the humbling work done for them, made subconsciously possible.

We need to all pause from the hustle and bustle of doing things as quickly as possible and with as much risk and for as much money as we each feel we can shoulder. We need to make room to prioritize mindfulness, listening, and just simple human humility. It's not all about people like us. Or, them. We are in this, together.

He who dies with the most toys, is simply dead. Not winning.