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Bitcoin falls below $300, lowest in 11 months

bitcoinwisdom.com

81–90 of 113 posts

Re: Bitcoin falls below $300, lowest in 11 months

#81
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true for 0.02 % of the world's population, at best. (This is more than the estimated number of people owning Bitcoins, like it or not.)

25 years ago, the same could be said of international phone calls. The world is getting smaller and smaller, there will be a point in the future where getting goods/services from someone across the ocean is as common as sending an email.

25 years ago, billions of people could place international phone calls.

Re: Bitcoin falls below $300, lowest in 11 months

#83
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

25 years ago, the same could be said of international phone calls. The world is getting smaller and smaller, there will be a point in the future where getting goods/services from someone across the ocean is as common as sending an email.

25 years ago, billions of people could place international phone calls.

I know, and that is kind of my point. I am not saying that money remittance is impossible without BTC. I am saying that it makes it so much easier and accessible that it's impossible to ignore.

Sending money overseas today is possible, but comparing Paypal/Western Union with BTC is the same as comparing AT&T (the original one) with Skype.

Re: Bitcoin falls below $300, lowest in 11 months

#84
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I can already pay for this with my credit card today.

That is a horrible counter-argument. What about the people on the other side of the transaction who (today) might not even have access to a bank account, let alone an international credit card? Also, tell me how do you hire someone working in a country with strong capital controls (e.g, Argentina). What good is your credit card if a contractor says "sorry, to use PayPal/Visa/Mastercard/Amex there is a 40-50% surcharg…

These people who don't have bank accounts and credit cards have internet and computers though (and the knowledge to harden these computers against attack)? Is there a problem that Bitcoin solves that isn't better solved by M-Pesa?

Re: Bitcoin falls below $300, lowest in 11 months

#85
post #28

Ok here is my 2 cents. The reason I feel Bitcoin has lost so much over the last couple of months is because in some ways its a victim of its own success. The more merchants that come online and support BitCoin payments the faster its going to drop in value. The reason is simple, supply & demand and bitcoin payment/exchange gateways. When merchants say they are accepting Bitcoin as payment they aren't really, they are…

> The more merchants that come online and support BitCoin payments the faster its going to drop in value I don't know enough to say it definitively, but this may be pure fantasy. Merchants "accepting Bitcoin" seems, to me at least, like a publicity stunt to attract the young, techno-hipster crowd, which is valuable for marketing. I wonder if "accepting Bitcoin" translates to actual high-volume transactions. I think t…

From my light experience of watching this Bitcoin thing for the last year, yes, you're right on target. Merchant "adoption" of Bitcoin for purchase is mostly hype. If I recall correctly Overstock.com does about only 10% of their sales in Bitcoin.

Re: Bitcoin falls below $300, lowest in 11 months

#86
post #57

The easier it gets to buy Bitcoin, and accept Bitcoin, the worse it will be. Even if you wanted to spend Bitcoin, you had to think ahead. Now Circle lets you buy within minutes (in most cases) of setting up your account. On the other side of things, Bitpay and Coinbase let merchants convert back to USD (or other currency) right away. So it's possible to do "just in time Bitcoin": Bitcoin is merely the payment protoco…

That's not true at all. The need to convert to dollars is present only most assets are denominated in dollars, taxes are paid in dollars, and our basic needs are paid for in dollars. What happens when vendor adoption expands to the point where you can buy enough from vendors - food, clothing, housing - with BitCoin that it is no longer absolutely necessary to convert to dollars, because you can subsist entirely on Bi…

That world is several years away, if it ever exists. Even then, it's a cash equivalent unless they do business with vendors that stop denominating in USD or hold BTC long-term.

Re: Bitcoin falls below $300, lowest in 11 months

#87
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I can already pay for this with my credit card today.

That is a horrible counter-argument. What about the people on the other side of the transaction who (today) might not even have access to a bank account, let alone an international credit card? Also, tell me how do you hire someone working in a country with strong capital controls (e.g, Argentina). What good is your credit card if a contractor says "sorry, to use PayPal/Visa/Mastercard/Amex there is a 40-50% surcharg…

They sell goods across the ocean but are unable to have a bank account? And why should the same surcharge not apply when paying with Bitcoins?

Re: Bitcoin falls below $300, lowest in 11 months

#88
That's what happens to a market driven entirely by speculation and adding tools like shorting in addition to the lack of interest from the general population. Prof. Bitcorn might be right, just not right about the date, I guess. We saw that outside of a short-live spike, even the PayPal announcement couldn't help it. I won't be surprised if the Chinese oligarchs already moved their funds outside of China via Bitcoin and now there's not enough demand to fuel the increasing price like before.

Re: Bitcoin falls below $300, lowest in 11 months

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a horrible counter-argument. What about the people on the other side of the transaction who (today) might not even have access to a bank account, let alone an international credit card? Also, tell me how do you hire someone working in a country with strong capital controls (e.g, Argentina). What good is your credit card if a contractor says "sorry, to use PayPal/Visa/Mastercard/Amex there is a 40-50% surcharg…

These people who don't have bank accounts and credit cards have internet and computers though (and the knowledge to harden these computers against attack)? Is there a problem that Bitcoin solves that isn't better solved by M-Pesa?

M-Pesa depends on the mobile carriers obtaining special licenses to operate as banking agents. AFAIK, very few countries in the developed world allow this.

> don't have bank accounts and credit cards have internet and computers though.

Yes. Think of "nigerian scammers". Think how easy it is to get prepaid cell phones in most of the world, etc, etc...

Re: Bitcoin falls below $300, lowest in 11 months

#90
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a horrible counter-argument. What about the people on the other side of the transaction who (today) might not even have access to a bank account, let alone an international credit card? Also, tell me how do you hire someone working in a country with strong capital controls (e.g, Argentina). What good is your credit card if a contractor says "sorry, to use PayPal/Visa/Mastercard/Amex there is a 40-50% surcharg…

They sell goods across the ocean but are unable to have a bank account? And why should the same surcharge not apply when paying with Bitcoins?

Yes, it is MUCH easier to get internet access than to get a bank account.

> And why should the same surcharge not apply when paying with Bitcoins?

Suppose you buy services from someone in Argentina and you pay USD 100. Paypal/Banks will give the recipient the "official rate" of the USD to Peso (as of today: ARS 8.45/USD)

Now, suppose that you send the equivalent amount of USD, but uses BTC. The receiver will sell the BTC (if so desires) at the rate established at the local market, which is mostly pegged to the Blue ("unofficial") Dollar. Exchange rate: ARS14,50/USD.

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