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The Physical Web

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Re: The Physical Web

#81

Post by eloisant »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #77
CapitalistCartr wrote: post #39

" . . . a vending machine, a poster, a toy, a bus stop, a rental car, and not have to download an app first in order to use it." I can, and do, do that now. I don't need or use an app to interact with any of those things, and when I have been offered apps, they've been worse than useless. Seriously, worse than nothing, they've been annoying, harassing, clunky junk. I just want to be able to approach any of these thin…

> but I can't have access to that information before I enter the store? Because why would they want you to have that information? They are making money on you not knowing where stuff is - they're hoping that you'll pick up additional items you didn't plan to buy as you wander around the shop looking for the things you need. Ditto for "worse than useless" apps - they are not meant to help you, they are meant to take m…

A lot of brick-and-mortar store chains do that in France, actually (Darty, FNAC, etc.).

They have an online store, and on each product page there is a field "stock in your preferred store". That's very handy; you can even order it online and pick it up in the store, so you don't have to pay or wait for delivery.

Several times I was planning to buy online, but since I found out on their site that their price is competitive and I can get it today, I ended up taking my car to a brick-and-mortar shop.

Re: The Physical Web

#82

Post by TeMPOraL »

eloisant wrote: post #81
TeMPOraL wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I can't have access to that information before I enter the store? Because why would they want you to have that information? They are making money on you not knowing where stuff is - they're hoping that you'll pick up additional items you didn't plan to buy as you wander around the shop looking for the things you need. Ditto for "worse than useless" apps - they are not meant to help you, they are meant to take m…

A lot of brick-and-mortar store chains do that in France, actually (Darty, FNAC, etc.). They have an online store, and on each product page there is a field "stock in your preferred store". That's very handy; you can even order it online and pick it up in the store, so you don't have to pay or wait for delivery. Several times I was planning to buy online, but since I found out on their site that their price is compet…

> Several times I was planning to buy online, but since I found out on their site that their price is competitive and I can get it today, I ended up taking my car to a brick-and-mortar shop.

This is strong competitive advantage of brick&mortar stores. I actually buy more locally than on-line for the sole reason that I'm impatient and when I need something, I need it ASAP, so I prefer to just go and buy it instead of waiting few days (same-day delivery is not common in Poland yet).

Re: The Physical Web

#83

Post by vertex-four »

nine_k wrote: post #15
paulojreis wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure what you mean by "appropriating technology". People accepting, wanting, using and integrating said technology in everyday life. > The number of smart devices is going to explode because we want to automate all the things This is precisely what I'm questioning. "We want"? How can you know that? I believe you want that, I believe that maybe people in your circles do, too. Still, that is no evidence at al…

There's an easy way to check: let's see what sells. Last time I checked, mildly smart home "robots", like automatic cookers, dishwashers, washing machines, even vacuum cleaners sold rather well, and were widely adopted. The smart devices, paradoxically, liberate you from thinking about dull details: you just put some clothes into a washing machine, press a button explaining approximately what type of clothes are ther…

> Last time I checked, mildly smart home "robots", like automatic cookers, dishwashers, washing machines, even vacuum cleaners sold rather well, and were widely adopted. The smart devices, paradoxically, liberate you from thinking about dull details: you just put some clothes into a washing machine, press a button explaining approximately what type of clothes are there, and walk away. The machine figures the rest.

I'm in the UK, and am rather middle-class, sort of. At the least, we don't have to worry about money much, and if I want to travel half way across the UK, I don't have to think much about it. I've just booked a film a day for the next week at a film festival.

On the other hand... I've literally never seen smart versions of these machines. I've barely ever seen a dishwasher outside a bar or restaurant, I've never seen an "automatic cooker", washing machines are generally much the same as they were 20 years ago, and robot vacuum cleaners are decidedly still a futuristic thing - most vacuum cleaners are, at their core, the same sort of thing we had 20 years ago with a new shell.

Perhaps these things are a lot more common in the US, and possibly in more upmarket parts of the UK, but I'd quite happily suggest that the vast majority of people are not aching to buy a smarter washing machine.

Re: The Physical Web

#84

Post by drivingmenuts »

bigtunacan wrote: post #72
notatoad wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is why the stores don't give out their actual inventory numbers to the public: because they can't accurately track those numbers. Things get stolen, lost in storage, and moved off their shelf to promotional displays.

And then people complain about how "useless" the app is. This is much less of a problem for Amazon where there aren't any thieving customers in the store.

It is useless if the information provided isn't correct. In some cases, it's actually worse than useless.

Re: The Physical Web

#85

Post by fiatjaf »

cromwellian wrote: post #75
fiatjaf wrote: post #56

Most normal people I see carrying a smartphone actually never use the browser. Never. I mean NEVER.

People use the browser very regularly and don't realize it because it's an embedded webkit. A classic example is people sharing articles on social networks. Native apps are a bad experience for this kind of application because they are not ephemeral. If everything in your environment has an app associated with it, then your phone will be clogged with hundreds or thousands of apps, 99% of which you never open. You wan…

This is exactly how I see it.

Re: The Physical Web

#86

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

vertex-four wrote: post #83
nine_k wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an easy way to check: let's see what sells. Last time I checked, mildly smart home "robots", like automatic cookers, dishwashers, washing machines, even vacuum cleaners sold rather well, and were widely adopted. The smart devices, paradoxically, liberate you from thinking about dull details: you just put some clothes into a washing machine, press a button explaining approximately what type of clothes are ther…

> Last time I checked, mildly smart home "robots", like automatic cookers, dishwashers, washing machines, even vacuum cleaners sold rather well, and were widely adopted. The smart devices, paradoxically, liberate you from thinking about dull details: you just put some clothes into a washing machine, press a button explaining approximately what type of clothes are there, and walk away. The machine figures the rest. I'…

I wonder if it's simply the case that they are more popular in the US. Every house I have lived in has had a dishwasher (some are smart enough to figure out when dishes are clean and stop, instead of just using a timer), and it's generally expected that apartments will have one also.

Washing machines typically have settings for the type of clothes that are inside. And while I've never used one, the robotic Roomba vacuums are cheap and seem to be pretty popular.

If it is indeed the case that uptake of these items is much higher in the US, it would be very interesting to understand why. I doubt very much that it's cost since they're available at multiple price points. Maybe it's something like the reason why essentially no US homes have an electric kettle while essentially no UK homes don't have one. IOW, it's cultural!

Re: The Physical Web

#87

Post by erikpukinskis »

cromwellian wrote: post #75
fiatjaf wrote: post #56

Most normal people I see carrying a smartphone actually never use the browser. Never. I mean NEVER.

People use the browser very regularly and don't realize it because it's an embedded webkit. A classic example is people sharing articles on social networks. Native apps are a bad experience for this kind of application because they are not ephemeral. If everything in your environment has an app associated with it, then your phone will be clogged with hundreds or thousands of apps, 99% of which you never open. You wan…

I agree with you. The problem as I see it is iOS-induced obsession with hardware I accelerated special effects. It's easy to make a web app that's silky smooth and has highly optimized paths for interaction, but iOS worshipping has caused us all (web and native developers both) to abandon interaction design for special effects design.

Sad to think that 2000-2010 was actually the golden age for genuine focus on interaction design. Ironic too that Apple was the company who killed it.

I should add: Apple generally does great interaction design. But they bundle it with expensive special effects and visual design. Everyone else tries to copy all three, but they can't, because it's insanely hard to do all three. Thats Apple's moat. And when mortal dev shops bump up against the "interaction/effects/visual, pick two" bargain, interaction is often the first one to go because it's the one that doesn't come through in a demo. And they're relying on the parallax effects to wow their client/boss. Plus they want to feel like they're going for the moonshot "Apple-quality" bar so their ego can get a boost. And honestly most people stop doing interaction design the moment they get a picture in their head of what their app could be. We become emotionally wedded to interactions the minute we invent them. God forbid we actually pay attention to the friction in our users' lives and put those things at the top of our prioritized lists.

I think we need a return to boring, native-to-the-web software with superb interaction design. And sacrifice pretty fonts and sacrifice 3d parllax effects and sacrifice animation, except where it is truly impacting comprehensibility (and not just feel).

That's the basket my eggs are in.

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