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Run Your Startup Like a Cult

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Re: Run Your Startup Like a Cult

#61

Post by zaccus »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #57
psaintla wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why? The tech world, like any other business place, is a mixture of people with different attitudes and personalities. If you clearly would have a personality clash with someone, why would it be worth hiring them? Easy, because they have the knowledge and experience you need for the job. If you're a professional you'll find a way to work with anyone. Yes, you'll have personality clashes from time to time but I have…

Easy, because they have the knowledge and experience you need for the job. Right but there are tons of people who have that - it's worth waiting for someone with both that and the cultural fit. As was mentioned in one of the lectures on "How to start a startup" Airbnb took 5 months to find their first hire for exactly this purpose.

There might be tons of people with knowledge and experience, but they're not in your typical applicant pool. They tend to already have jobs.

Re: Run Your Startup Like a Cult

#62

Post by psaintla »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #57
psaintla wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why? The tech world, like any other business place, is a mixture of people with different attitudes and personalities. If you clearly would have a personality clash with someone, why would it be worth hiring them? Easy, because they have the knowledge and experience you need for the job. If you're a professional you'll find a way to work with anyone. Yes, you'll have personality clashes from time to time but I have…

Easy, because they have the knowledge and experience you need for the job. Right but there are tons of people who have that - it's worth waiting for someone with both that and the cultural fit. As was mentioned in one of the lectures on "How to start a startup" Airbnb took 5 months to find their first hire for exactly this purpose.

That is totally anecdotal, there is zero evidence that their emphasis on culture had anything to do with their success. Don't get caught up in cargo cults.

Re: Run Your Startup Like a Cult

#63

Post by trhway »

themoonbus wrote: post #2

"Hire Employees Who Are Excited to Wear Your Logo on Their Hoodies" I was hoping this article wasn't as ridiculous as the headline, and some of the advice is good... but it's stuff like this, Silicon Valley. Is it possible anymore to just want to work hard on an interesting problem, or do I really have to be a "fanatic" about it?

>"Hire Employees Who Are Excited to Wear Your Logo on Their Hoodies"

how about building a company that would make it employees excited to wear its logo on their hoodies. Compare for example wearing "Palantir" vs. "SpaceX" on your hoodie :)

Re: Run Your Startup Like a Cult

#64

Post by arjie »

Interesting article. The people who'd be convinced by it don't need it because they already follow it. The people who aren't are unlikely to be big participants in the startup world.

These HN comments seem to indicate that too. Lots of people talking like long term employees. Few actual startup participants.

Re: Run Your Startup Like a Cult

#65

Post by spiffage »

trhway wrote: post #63
themoonbus wrote: post #2

"Hire Employees Who Are Excited to Wear Your Logo on Their Hoodies" I was hoping this article wasn't as ridiculous as the headline, and some of the advice is good... but it's stuff like this, Silicon Valley. Is it possible anymore to just want to work hard on an interesting problem, or do I really have to be a "fanatic" about it?

>"Hire Employees Who Are Excited to Wear Your Logo on Their Hoodies" how about building a company that would make it employees excited to wear its logo on their hoodies. Compare for example wearing "Palantir" vs. "SpaceX" on your hoodie :)

I'm pretty sure employees at both Palantir and SpaceX wear company-branded clothes a lot. I know that's the case at Palantir for sure.

Re: Run Your Startup Like a Cult

#66

Post by kelnos »

TheCapn wrote: post #29
jiggy2011 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've turned down jobs that promote "monthly massages", "beer fridays", "gaming evenings", and other perks like the article mentions because when you step back and look at it they're trying to replace your life outside of work with excuses why you shouldn't leave work. Bind your job to your necessities and leaving becomes so much harder. This isn't always the case, especially in larger companies. Sometimes perks are j…

I shouldn't make it sound like I dislike creative perks, but I definitely have a problem when the company tried using those as selling points in lieu of more traditional job perks that I was looking for. Perks that I like are spending accounts, flexible hours, pension, additional work holidays. The company I moved to after turning down those types had ones like: 1 paid day off per year to use volunteering; 0% interes…

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with, then. The article specifically points out that playing the "perk war" is a bad idea, and people who are swayed by things like laundry service are likely not the people you want.

Re: Run Your Startup Like a Cult

#67

Post by kelnos »

smacktoward wrote: post #39
jiggy2011 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once a company goes beyond a certain scale these perks can be delivered quite cheaply, at a much lower per employee cost than the employee would ever be able to get for themselves. This is one of the things a big company can use to entice people away from small startups where they might not get similar perks. Having say a small fund to use for sporting activities can improve interpersonal relationships between employ…

> Once a company goes beyond a certain scale these perks can be delivered quite cheaply, at a much lower per employee cost than the employee would ever be able to get for themselves. This is one of the things a big company can use to entice people away from small startups where they might not get similar perks. Or you could just, you know, pay them more.

I do somewhat believe this, but this ignores the fact that people will trade money for time and convenience. Things like not having to worry about doing laundry, or cook, or pick a place to eat, etc. are often things people will "pay for" via a slightly lower salary.

Re: Run Your Startup Like a Cult

#69

Post by kelnos »

mattgreenrocks wrote: post #33
TheCapn wrote: post #8

Articles like this make me believe that even if I managed to find my way into Silicon Valley I simply wouldn't fit in. My job is not my identity, I feel its healthy to generate a life outside your work that is entirely separate; heck I see it as a necessity for longevity in life to have such segregation. I've turned down jobs that promote "monthly massages", "beer fridays", "gaming evenings", and other perks like the…

The fact that this sets off alarm bells means you're well-adjusted, not weird. This is institutionalized conformity at it's best. It smacks of immature college grads trying fruitlessly to fill the social void that emerges from both workaholism and leaving college. Demand interesting problems, reasonable autonomy, good pay (incl. equity), a real business plan (yeah I'm a dreamer), and a regular work schedule. The rest…

I'm puzzled as to why there's so much negativity toward the idea of having a social life that involves your co-workers. There was a line in the article that really rang a bell with me, about how you spend a large amount of your waking life at work, so why not try to work with people you'd like to hang out with otherwise.

I have very strong social circles both in and out of my company, and those circles even mix. I've been markedly less happy working at companies where I wouldn't consider going out for a beer with the people I work with.

Now, it's unclear if Thiel is actually advocating centering your entire social life around your company. If that's the case, I certainly disagree with that premise, but I would find it intolerable working just with people who I only cared to see during work hours.

Re: Run Your Startup Like a Cult

#70

Post by jedunnigan »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #59
jedunnigan wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Because it is itself the process of growing. It is an intermediate phase. I think you missed what I was saying, you are conflating issues as well. I believe you can be tied to your successes and dedicate yourself to something without it consuming your identity. I am not saying that what you do is not a part of who you are, of course it is. But I believe there is a greater whole being ignored when your identity is li…

I simply don't believe you can be something external to yourself. Certainly you can trick yourself into thinking that it is who you are (in whatever "phase" of life you are in), but again, IMO, that is a reductive line of thinking. That's the crux of it and I think is wrong with lot's of examples to prove otherwise. Look at any U.S. Marine. They ARE Marines, or any Olympic athlete, they are whatever their sporting ro…

Fair enough, my wording was a bit more limiting than I meant it to be. But I hear you, and you make some good points.

I guess I'll just use an old saying to put it one other way: 'the river is separate from the bed on which it flows'.

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