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Run Your Startup Like a Cult

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Re: Run Your Startup Like a Cult

#51

Post by AndrewKemendo »

jedunnigan wrote: post #48
TheCapn wrote: post #8

Articles like this make me believe that even if I managed to find my way into Silicon Valley I simply wouldn't fit in. My job is not my identity, I feel its healthy to generate a life outside your work that is entirely separate; heck I see it as a necessity for longevity in life to have such segregation. I've turned down jobs that promote "monthly massages", "beer fridays", "gaming evenings", and other perks like the…

The fourth point in the article raises some red flags for me. I agree with the Capn: >My job is not my identity, I feel its healthy to generate a life outside your work that is entirely separate; You've hit on an important point here. There are lots of way to express similar sentiments, and you state it in a very practically appealing way (i.e. wrapping our identity firmly around our jobs is a dangerous path). I agre…

If what I _do_ is be a Google employee and all I _am_ is a Google employee, what room is there left to grow?

Because it is itself the process of growing. It is an intermediate phase.

Using myself as an example I know where I want to be in the next 20 years, but I also know there are some intermediate steps to get there. All of those require my identity to be tied to the thing I am working on in order for me to

1. Truly dedicate the work needed to make it successful and

2. signaling to the world that I am tied to these successes and organizations.

You know that Elon musk (or insert person) was part of Paypal/SpaceX/Tesla/SolarCity (or insert company) because he ties his personality to it.

Re: Run Your Startup Like a Cult

#52

Post by AndrewKemendo »

themoonbus wrote: post #2

"Hire Employees Who Are Excited to Wear Your Logo on Their Hoodies" I was hoping this article wasn't as ridiculous as the headline, and some of the advice is good... but it's stuff like this, Silicon Valley. Is it possible anymore to just want to work hard on an interesting problem, or do I really have to be a "fanatic" about it?

Is it possible anymore to just want to work hard on an interesting problem, or do I really have to be a "fanatic" about it?

Not if you want to create a billion dollar company as a founder - which is basically the point of VC backed startups.

If you want to just work at one, then sure, but that is not what this article is about.

Re: Run Your Startup Like a Cult

#53

Post by 14113 »

TheCapn wrote: post #8

Articles like this make me believe that even if I managed to find my way into Silicon Valley I simply wouldn't fit in. My job is not my identity, I feel its healthy to generate a life outside your work that is entirely separate; heck I see it as a necessity for longevity in life to have such segregation. I've turned down jobs that promote "monthly massages", "beer fridays", "gaming evenings", and other perks like the…

I think you're looking at #3 the wrong way - it's not a bijection, it's meant to be surjective. Every person is meant to be responsible for one thing, but many people may be responsible for the same thing. The aim of that is to reduce the task switching overhead from people frequently changing foci, and allow them to focus all their resources on improving one core competency.

Re: Run Your Startup Like a Cult

#54

Post by jedunnigan »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #51
jedunnigan wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fourth point in the article raises some red flags for me. I agree with the Capn: >My job is not my identity, I feel its healthy to generate a life outside your work that is entirely separate; You've hit on an important point here. There are lots of way to express similar sentiments, and you state it in a very practically appealing way (i.e. wrapping our identity firmly around our jobs is a dangerous path). I agre…

If what I _do_ is be a Google employee and all I _am_ is a Google employee, what room is there left to grow? Because it is itself the process of growing. It is an intermediate phase. Using myself as an example I know where I want to be in the next 20 years, but I also know there are some intermediate steps to get there. All of those require my identity to be tied to the thing I am working on in order for me to 1. Tru…

>Because it is itself the process of growing. It is an intermediate phase.

I think you missed what I was saying, you are conflating issues as well. I believe you can be tied to your successes and dedicate yourself to something without it consuming your identity.

I am not saying that what you do is not a part of who you are, of course it is. But I believe there is a greater whole being ignored when your identity is limited to what you do at any given time.

Said differently: I simply don't believe you can be something external to yourself. Certainly you can trick yourself into thinking that it is who you are (in whatever "phase" of life you are in), but again, IMO, that is a reductive line of thinking.

As for the Elon Musk example, you are flipping the conversation. You are attributing personality traits to a companies actions. Of course that will happen, a company is made up of people who make decisions. That does not mean the company makes the man.

Re: Run Your Startup Like a Cult

#55

Post by psaintla »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #49
davesque wrote: post #41

This article is classic. The thing that strikes me most is the author's assertion that hiring should not be based on the classic indicators like talent and professionalism, but on some kind of subtle chemistry that a person either does or doesn't have as you perceive it. As he puts it, "Why work with a group of people who don’t even like each other?" Well, in the adult world, you hire mature, professional people who…

Well, in the adult world, you hire mature, professional people who learn to work with each other and overcome their differences. You just described a specific personality trait - that of someone who can moderate their desires in order to get along with the broader group. This is exactly the same reasoning that people are looking for with "culture fit" - they are looking for a very specific personality trait. This can…

> Why? The tech world, like any other business place, is a mixture of people with different attitudes and personalities. If you clearly would have a personality clash with someone, why would it be worth hiring them?

Easy, because they have the knowledge and experience you need for the job. If you're a professional you'll find a way to work with anyone. Yes, you'll have personality clashes from time to time but I have yet to work at a place where that didn't happen.

Re: Run Your Startup Like a Cult

#56

Post by gmarx »

"... promise what no others can: the opportunity to do irreplaceable work on a unique problem alongside great people."

So, step one- be a great person.

In the words of Maxwell Smart "missed it by that much"

Re: Run Your Startup Like a Cult

#57

Post by AndrewKemendo »

psaintla wrote: post #55
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, in the adult world, you hire mature, professional people who learn to work with each other and overcome their differences. You just described a specific personality trait - that of someone who can moderate their desires in order to get along with the broader group. This is exactly the same reasoning that people are looking for with "culture fit" - they are looking for a very specific personality trait. This can…

> Why? The tech world, like any other business place, is a mixture of people with different attitudes and personalities. If you clearly would have a personality clash with someone, why would it be worth hiring them? Easy, because they have the knowledge and experience you need for the job. If you're a professional you'll find a way to work with anyone. Yes, you'll have personality clashes from time to time but I have…

Easy, because they have the knowledge and experience you need for the job.

Right but there are tons of people who have that - it's worth waiting for someone with both that and the cultural fit. As was mentioned in one of the lectures on "How to start a startup" Airbnb took 5 months to find their first hire for exactly this purpose.

Re: Run Your Startup Like a Cult

#58

Post by mattgreenrocks »

jedunnigan wrote: post #54
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If what I _do_ is be a Google employee and all I _am_ is a Google employee, what room is there left to grow? Because it is itself the process of growing. It is an intermediate phase. Using myself as an example I know where I want to be in the next 20 years, but I also know there are some intermediate steps to get there. All of those require my identity to be tied to the thing I am working on in order for me to 1. Tru…

>Because it is itself the process of growing. It is an intermediate phase. I think you missed what I was saying, you are conflating issues as well. I believe you can be tied to your successes and dedicate yourself to something without it consuming your identity. I am not saying that what you do is not a part of who you are, of course it is. But I believe there is a greater whole being ignored when your identity is li…

It's very reductive, and it's also supported by culture. Culture wants to objectify you into being the x guy, whether it's FP evangelist or maintainer of $COOL_OSS_PROJECT or whatever.

Resist that for your own sake. You cannot reinvent yourself if you've cast your identity in stone.

Re: Run Your Startup Like a Cult

#59

Post by AndrewKemendo »

jedunnigan wrote: post #54
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If what I _do_ is be a Google employee and all I _am_ is a Google employee, what room is there left to grow? Because it is itself the process of growing. It is an intermediate phase. Using myself as an example I know where I want to be in the next 20 years, but I also know there are some intermediate steps to get there. All of those require my identity to be tied to the thing I am working on in order for me to 1. Tru…

>Because it is itself the process of growing. It is an intermediate phase. I think you missed what I was saying, you are conflating issues as well. I believe you can be tied to your successes and dedicate yourself to something without it consuming your identity. I am not saying that what you do is not a part of who you are, of course it is. But I believe there is a greater whole being ignored when your identity is li…

I simply don't believe you can be something external to yourself. Certainly you can trick yourself into thinking that it is who you are (in whatever "phase" of life you are in), but again, IMO, that is a reductive line of thinking.

That's the crux of it and I think is wrong with lot's of examples to prove otherwise.

Look at any U.S. Marine. They ARE Marines, or any Olympic athlete, they are whatever their sporting role is.

Of course setting up the idea as though the only way to do it is to "trick yourself" makes it impossible to refute so I will just leave it at this:

Common startup wisdom seems to believe that if you want to be the founder of a billion dollar company, you probably need to "trick yourself," or however you want to say it, into believing you are your company.

Re: Run Your Startup Like a Cult

#60

Post by zaccus »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #49
davesque wrote: post #41

This article is classic. The thing that strikes me most is the author's assertion that hiring should not be based on the classic indicators like talent and professionalism, but on some kind of subtle chemistry that a person either does or doesn't have as you perceive it. As he puts it, "Why work with a group of people who don’t even like each other?" Well, in the adult world, you hire mature, professional people who…

Well, in the adult world, you hire mature, professional people who learn to work with each other and overcome their differences. You just described a specific personality trait - that of someone who can moderate their desires in order to get along with the broader group. This is exactly the same reasoning that people are looking for with "culture fit" - they are looking for a very specific personality trait. This can…

I don't think finding a way to get along with your coworkers despite personality differences is a specific personality trait. It's something any grown adult, or at least anyone worth hiring, should be able to do.
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