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Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

timeshighereducation.co.uk

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Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#461

Post by learc83 »

thejdude wrote: post #446
superuser2 wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>dorms If efficiently managed, dorms shouldn't represent a significant burden on students above the price of living in off-campus housing. >restaurants Generally make a profit. >coffee shops Generally make a profit while employing unskilled students. >fitness clubs Okay, these are probably excessive, but fitness is fairly important. >green spaces everywhere I'd be really surprised if this accounted for an appreciable…

German here who also studied abroad for a year (US state college). Overall, there are many similarities, but also differences. I was surprised how freaking EASY everything was in the US university, compared to Germany. Multiple-choice tests, not much background knowledge assumed. Very school-like system (instead of assuming students will learn some of the necessary background at home). I've seen different German univ…

>I was surprised how freaking EASY everything was in the US university

What did you study? Either you're exceptional, you've never been to an engineering school in the US, or you were taking particularly easy classes.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#462

Post by MarkMc »

notahacker wrote: post #315
h43k3r wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you.Today, IITs (best engineering universities in india) for example have fees no more than $1000 per semester. Many of my classmates who are from relatively poor background are able to study without worrying about loans and and many of them are doing very well in their careers.

Poor relative to whom? India's nominal GDP per capita is GDP $1570 per annum.

Yes but IIT graduate salary is typically around $10,000 per annum. Doesn't that allow even the poorest students to get a student loan?

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#463

Post by junto »

FractalNerve wrote: post #433
daviddumenil wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France has relatively high Social Mobility. http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/may/22/social-...

Excuse my stupid question, but what does social mobility mean? [serious]

Quite simply: The ability to move between social classes.

  Social mobility is the movement of individuals, families,
  households, or other categories of people within or 
  between social strata in a society. It is a change in 
  social status relative to others' social location within a 
  given society.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#464

Post by yaeger »

untog wrote: post #48
Igglyboo wrote: post #5

It's really crazy how the students reacted to this when the fees were introduced. They were very low compared to the US, less than 1000 euros for an entire year yet the students responded with mass protests and vandalism. On university also had it's master key(ring?) stolen and had to spend a lot of money to redo every lock. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bielefeld_University#Protests_a...

They weren't protesting 1000 euros, they were protesting fees of any kind. The leap from "no fees" to "fees" the biggest of all.

It still seemed petty when that "biggest gap of all" has a monetary value of about 20 bucks a week. For a higher education, mind you. I am willing to bet that the average student tends to spend more over the weekend in various nightclubs.

And that just made me wonder if they really value their weekly nightly outing more than their own education. I came to the conclusion that it just came down to something like "But the generation before us didn't have to pay. I don't want to pay also".

Also, if these fees were to be used exclusively for investing in infrastructure for higher learning, the students would profit from this. With fees like this is it of course easy that they get funneled into other funds but originally, these fees, small as they were, were supposed to be used to make upgrades in the universities. You'd think students would like to use better equipment. Because now, that they pay as little as their parents did, namely nothing, they probably will also get to use the exact same equipment their parents used.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#465

Post by zmmmmm »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #30
Retric wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The economy is not zero sum and educated people on average make more. So, the net cost over time for subsidizing education is probably a small fraction of the sticker price. Or possibly it ends up paying for it's self.

But if they do make more, does it not make sense for the university grad to pay that cost after they have graduated?

You could turn that around; if they contribute more to society through their own sacrifice (years studying and learning, probably on low income), shouldn't they be rewarded for that? Does it not make sense for society to contribute something to the tremendous benefit they get from this person's sacrifice?

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#466

Post by icelancer »

skinnybatch wrote: post #402
mathattack wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't even get me started on the sports, it's an outrage how US schools have become sports franchises. This pisses me off too. It's why I don't give money to my Sports Franchise undergrad.

+1 I remember my mother speaking to some college admissions person at a semi-prestigious school in Pennsylvania, many years back when I was in the throws of applying. When speaking to some admissions confusion with respect to my high school, the guy said, "Well frankly, it's not called the Ivy League because of its academics." That's always stuck with me. Athletic scholarships? You betcha. Academic scholarships? What…

>"Well frankly, it's not called the Ivy League because of its academics." That's always stuck with me. Athletic scholarships? You betcha. Academic scholarships? What are those?

What are you talking about? Ivy League schools do not offer athletic money and all (now, not when I was applying) are need-blind, giving tons of money to those who need it.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#467

Post by echion »

michael_fine wrote: post #413
skinnybatch wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 I remember my mother speaking to some college admissions person at a semi-prestigious school in Pennsylvania, many years back when I was in the throws of applying. When speaking to some admissions confusion with respect to my high school, the guy said, "Well frankly, it's not called the Ivy League because of its academics." That's always stuck with me. Athletic scholarships? You betcha. Academic scholarships? What…

Actually though, no schools in the Ivy League give athletic scholarships [1], and most college sports are revenue neutral. 1: http://www.ivyleaguesports.com/information/psa/index

They do have systems of marking applications of prospective students approved by a coach.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#468

Post by brianmcc »

sambeau wrote: post #178
brianmcc wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some parts of the UK, you mean :-) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-23279868

This isn't such a simple story. The current Scottish Government has been widely criticised by opponents for using cuts in the College budgets to fund their free tuition policy for Universities. As colleges and universities are, sadly, still stratified by class in the UK this could have a detrimental on effect for social mobility in Scotland. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-2387...

Interesting point. Genuine question: you don't feel that basically free degree courses are, with some individual cases to the contrary, sure, still a massive net benefit to social mobility?

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#469

Post by macco »

zwieback wrote: post #302

Another point: US universities look very different from German ones. I live in Corvallis (OSU) now but grew up and went to school in Stuttgart Germany. Compared to the German universities our US schools are country clubs: dorms, restaurants, coffee shops, fitness clubs, green spaces everywhere. Don't even get me started on the sports, it's an outrage how US schools have become sports franchises. I'm guessing most US…

My question is: Where did you learn more?

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#470

Post by Genmutant »

sheltgor wrote: post #418
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't run those, they generally contract them out to Sodexo or similar company. The only reason they are there is because students spend money on them. You should have more of a problem with student free spending ways than with the universities just providing for their habits.

Big problem with this. Particularly with dining plans, many of which don't refund at the end of the term/academic year and are required for the dorms. You want to be thrifty and only spend 600 or the 800 you had this spring? Too bad, you're going to have to splurge the last 200 somehow or you're not getting it back.

What is a dining plan?
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