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Before the Startup

paulgraham.com

51–60 of 169 posts

Re: Before the Startup

#51

I was really hoping this article would be about how massive companies were built (billion dollar or otherwise) before the invention of the "startup." Something along these lines: http://startupguide.com/world/the-history-of-entrepreneurshi... with less use of the word "entrepreneur" as PG expressed his distaste as such.

That article, expanded, would make a fantastic, fantastic book, if done properly.

Re: Before the Startup

#52
post #47

So this is the third counterintuitive thing to remember about startups: starting a startup is where gaming the system stops working. Gaming the system may continue to work if you go to work for a big company. Depending on how broken the company is, you can succeed by sucking up to the right people, giving the impression of productivity, and so on. [2] But that doesn't work with startups. There is no boss to trick, on…

How do you bootstrap a company that requires significant R&D before an MVP can be shipped? Or for that matter one that has initial infrastructure costs, or one would only be affordable if there's an economy of scale?

This is armchair quarterbacking, of course, I'm not an entrepreneur and do not pretend to be one. Patio11 has a lot of interesting and relevant things to say, but I would hate to live in a world where entrepreneurs only undertook ventures that could be bootstrapped for a reason that I'll frankly admit is selfish: throughout my career I've worked on very fascinating problems in either VC funded startups or companies that have began their life as such; I can't see a scenario where I would have been able to do this (or similar kind of work) in a bootstrapped product company. That's not to say there aren't other interesting problems that could be solved in a bootstrapped company, but my own area of focus -- distributed systems -- is almost by definition something that requires both infrastructure and up-front development (and, in general, is only something that should be used if there's a scalability or reliability problem to start with.)

Re: Before the Startup

#53

> Yet when it comes to startups, a lot of people seem to think they're supposed to start them while they're still in college. Is PG seriously implying he doesn't know where college students got the idea that they should be founding startups instead, after spending the last ten years telling them to?

Refusing to change your mind in light of contradicting evidence is not a virtue :-)

For the record, I do recall that YC changed their policy on this rather early-on its history (explicitly advising undergrads against applying) and pg has repeatedly told "Ask HN" posters on this site not to drop out of college.

Re: Before the Startup

#54
post #52
post #47

So this is the third counterintuitive thing to remember about startups: starting a startup is where gaming the system stops working. Gaming the system may continue to work if you go to work for a big company. Depending on how broken the company is, you can succeed by sucking up to the right people, giving the impression of productivity, and so on. [2] But that doesn't work with startups. There is no boss to trick, on…

How do you bootstrap a company that requires significant R&D before an MVP can be shipped? Or for that matter one that has initial infrastructure costs, or one would only be affordable if there's an economy of scale? This is armchair quarterbacking, of course, I'm not an entrepreneur and do not pretend to be one. Patio11 has a lot of interesting and relevant things to say, but I would hate to live in a world where en…

How do you bootstrap a company that requires significant R&D before an MVP can be shipped? Or for that matter one that has initial infrastructure costs, or one would only be affordable if there's an economy of scale?

You can't. That isn't a problem though. The 'bootstrapped versus capital-backed' dilemma is false. It's not a case of one being better than the other so much as a case of "the one that's best for the business and its founders". Often there won't be a choice - some businesses have zero chance of raising money before they start and some have zero chance of starting without raising capital first. The discussion is usually around whether or not the majority of SaaS startups need to raise money first rather than any business.

Re: Before the Startup

#55
pg wrote, "Batch after batch, the YC partners warn founders about mistakes they're about to make..."

My question would be "what are the mistakes"?

It would be amazingly interesting if PG, Sam or someone else from YC can start to list some of these warnings / common mistakes in one of the classes.

Obviously, some advice is company specific, however starting to compile this list of advice would be a valuable additional to community knowledge.

Re: Before the Startup

#56
post #52
post #47

So this is the third counterintuitive thing to remember about startups: starting a startup is where gaming the system stops working. Gaming the system may continue to work if you go to work for a big company. Depending on how broken the company is, you can succeed by sucking up to the right people, giving the impression of productivity, and so on. [2] But that doesn't work with startups. There is no boss to trick, on…

How do you bootstrap a company that requires significant R&D before an MVP can be shipped? Or for that matter one that has initial infrastructure costs, or one would only be affordable if there's an economy of scale? This is armchair quarterbacking, of course, I'm not an entrepreneur and do not pretend to be one. Patio11 has a lot of interesting and relevant things to say, but I would hate to live in a world where en…

"How do you bootstrap a company that requires significant R&D before an MVP can be shipped? Or for that matter one that has initial infrastructure costs, or one would only be affordable if there's an economy of scale?"

You can't — obviously. And folk like Amy Hoy @patio11 freely admit that.

The key word there though is "requires". I've encountered lots of companies that have spent silly amounts of money, often their investors money, because they've missed opportunities to validate their business model in cheaper ways. Either because they don't know how or they don't want to. Folk who are so focussed on the vision that their aiming for that they fail to look down as they walk over a cliff.

To stereotype slightly I'd say that folk with a dev background are more likely to go that route than not — since the business / marketing / user research end of the skill spectrum that can help with that stuff is less familiar to them.

Nothing against VC funding, and it's absolutely necessary for some companies. It's just that the majority of folk that I see trying for it are doing so before it is actually required. Either because they're missing ways they can continue more economically because they lack the skills, or they hope that the (lack of) positive feedback that they're getting so far will be solved by money.

Re: Before the Startup

#58
> So this is the third counterintuitive thing to remember about startups: starting a startup is where gaming the system stops working. Gaming the system may continue to work if you go to work for a big company(...) But that doesn't work with startups. There is no boss to trick, only users, and all users care about is whether your product does what they want. Startups are as impersonal as physics. You have to make something people want, and you prosper only to the extent you do.

I don't believe this is true. I think the startup ecosystem actually learned how to game "making something people want". After all, startups are companies, companies need to profit, and "making what people want" vs. "making what people will pay for" are similar, yet not perfectly aligned goals.

pg may be right that startups are "as impersonal as physics", but users aren't, and herein lies the trick. One of the most blatant ways of gaming the system is the exit-seeking, toilet-paper startup. It exploits the disconnect between "growth" and "making something users want". The algorithm works like this:

  - find something people apparently "want"
  - make a half-baked solution, maximize it for user-acquiring candies
  - market the living hell out of it
  - keep the growth until you can sell your startup or get acquihired
  - kill the product; who cares about it, anyway? oh and don't forget to thank your users for the journey, you couldn't all share this awesome moment without their help.
I want startups to be like pg describes. Maybe the most successful ones are like that. But there are so many that don't care about users that people are already developing a huge mistrust with everything-SaaS. I guess it's exactly like univerity - you can game your way through it if you treat is as an intermediate step. That your trick-grades don't reflect any actual knowledge doesn't matter after they get you a good job.

Re: Before the Startup

#59
post #47

So this is the third counterintuitive thing to remember about startups: starting a startup is where gaming the system stops working. Gaming the system may continue to work if you go to work for a big company. Depending on how broken the company is, you can succeed by sucking up to the right people, giving the impression of productivity, and so on. [2] But that doesn't work with startups. There is no boss to trick, on…

I disagree with you on academia, as the checks & balances plus the peer review system for worldwide recognised published research kill and destroy bullshitters. I am not saying there aren't any but having been in both academia & corporate, the latter is infested with them.

In startup world, they get also eliminated quite rapidly as they will just fail. Success of any startups is not to raise funds but to get customers who will pay for value and for that bullshitters cannot trick the system.

Re: Before the Startup

#60

I like the term "playing house". Seems like there are a lot of similar activities. I don't make it to many "startup" type events, but when I do, I always wonder why everyone there is spending so much time hanging out with each other instead of going to the events their customers go to.

From my observations as a participant of such events, people actually working on startups don't frequent them.

The composition of people attending your typical bi-weekly unmeeting is: few people with money, lots of people who would like some of that money, few random CEOs who look for free employers, and the rest that just wants to hang out with "startup guys" because it's cool (and maybe they get to see some new toys).

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