Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Before the Startup

paulgraham.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 169 posts

Re: Before the Startup

#11

Post by lmartel »

kinkora wrote: post #6

Well written article. I think PGs advice doesn't just apply to startups but to nearly everything in life. Learning (or as PG puts it, "Just Learn") is huge part of the equation if one wants to advance. You'll be surprise how this attitude is not very prevalent to the general population of adults. Want to get earn more money? Just learn how. Want that promotion? Just learn what you need to achieve. Not an expert on a…

This is the sort of advice that, imo, sounds great (especially to HN readers and PG fans) but isn't actually helpful or correct.

Learning is important but life isn't that simple--earning money is mostly leverage and negotiation, promotions are mostly politics, and so on. You can choose not to participate and "just learn" but you'll be at a disadvantage unless you are a truly exceptional learner.

Re: Before the Startup

#12

Post by dheer01 »

"[1] Some founders listen more than others, and this tends to be a predictor of success. One of the things I remember about the Airbnbs during YC is how intently they listened."

- Looks like a case of survivor bias. How many founders who listened as intently did not build Airbnbs ?

"[4] What should you do if your true calling is gaming the system? Management consulting."

- Nailed it.

Re: Before the Startup

#13

Post by m52go »

TheUnPedant wrote: post #9

> Yet when it comes to startups, a lot of people seem to think they're supposed to start them while they're still in college. Is PG seriously implying he doesn't know where college students got the idea that they should be founding startups instead, after spending the last ten years telling them to?

Yeah I find that statement strange.

Not only that, but haven't the majority of the 'successful' founders in which he's invested either been in college or at least in their 20s?

Adjacent point: 99% of founders don't stick around with their companies for life like Mark Zuckerberg. That's an ideal scenario for a game-changing company. In the overwhelming majority of cases, you exit and move on.

Re: Before the Startup

#14

Post by apsec112 »

TheUnPedant wrote: post #9

> Yet when it comes to startups, a lot of people seem to think they're supposed to start them while they're still in college. Is PG seriously implying he doesn't know where college students got the idea that they should be founding startups instead, after spending the last ten years telling them to?

"The three big powers on the Internet now are Yahoo, Google, and Microsoft. Average age of their founders: 24. So it is pretty well established now that grad students can start successful companies. And if grad students can do it, why not undergrads? (...)

The less it costs to start a company, the less you need the permission of investors to do it. So a lot of people will be able to start companies now who never could have before.

The most interesting subset may be those in their early twenties. I'm not so excited about founders who have everything investors want except intelligence, or everything except energy. The most promising group to be liberated by the new, lower threshold are those who have everything investors want except experience." - http://www.paulgraham.com/hiring.html

If PG has genuinely changed his mind in the face of new evidence, we should award him points for that. But he should also come out and admit it.

Re: Before the Startup

#15

Post by [deleted] »

TheUnPedant wrote: post #9

> Yet when it comes to startups, a lot of people seem to think they're supposed to start them while they're still in college. Is PG seriously implying he doesn't know where college students got the idea that they should be founding startups instead, after spending the last ten years telling them to?

[deleted]

Re: Before the Startup

#16

Post by kinkora »

lmartel wrote: post #11
kinkora wrote: post #6

Well written article. I think PGs advice doesn't just apply to startups but to nearly everything in life. Learning (or as PG puts it, "Just Learn") is huge part of the equation if one wants to advance. You'll be surprise how this attitude is not very prevalent to the general population of adults. Want to get earn more money? Just learn how. Want that promotion? Just learn what you need to achieve. Not an expert on a…

This is the sort of advice that, imo, sounds great (especially to HN readers and PG fans) but isn't actually helpful or correct. Learning is important but life isn't that simple--earning money is mostly leverage and negotiation, promotions are mostly politics, and so on. You can choose not to participate and "just learn" but you'll be at a disadvantage unless you are a truly exceptional learner.

Yep, I wholly agree!

Which is why i say self-efficacy[1] is the other important half of the learning bit. Without it, learning is only just that: learning. If you don't have the belief, motivation or even the tenacity to act and follow through on what you learned, then all you have is just knowledge in your head.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-efficacy

Re: Before the Startup

#17

Post by adamzerner »

Nice to hear from pg again. I love his writing. He has useful points, and says them well. HOWEVER...

There's a lot of prescribing of advice, but not too much explaining why it's good advice. Usually there's a few sentences of explanations, but the topic could be discussed in much more depth. I'd like to hear a more complete explanation from pg.

Re: Before the Startup

#18

Post by kiba »

dheer01 wrote: post #12

"[1] Some founders listen more than others, and this tends to be a predictor of success. One of the things I remember about the Airbnbs during YC is how intently they listened." - Looks like a case of survivor bias. How many founders who listened as intently did not build Airbnbs ? "[4] What should you do if your true calling is gaming the system? Management consulting." - Nailed it.

- Looks like a case of survivor bias. How many founders who listened as intently did not build Airbnbs ?

There were also examples of failure in their portfolio.

Re: Before the Startup

#19

Post by malanj »

This is a really useful perspective for undergrads. I would have gained a lot of value if I could have read this while studying.

I started a startup during my undergrad degree, and ended up finishing my degree at the same time. I made a deal with my lecturers to allow me to skip basically everything during the term time, and then just took "holiday" from my startup to write exams. It worked out OK and we raised a lot of money the year after I got my degree. So I don't think that's impossible, but it was pretty hard work.

Re: Before the Startup

#20

Post by staunch »

It seems odd not to acknowledge that most successful startups are not created like this. Very few are. Perhaps only the truly great ones take the organic personal project route. Apple, Google, Facebook, and YC are among the handful one could list out of thousands of startups.

Most successful startups are the result of ambitious people working hard to come up with good ideas. PG has explicitly said he started Viaweb to get rich. IIRC it was picked from a list of other startup ideas and was the second attempt. He wasn't deeply fascinated by online stores, it just seemed like a good business to start.

Post reply on HN