Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

timeshighereducation.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

341–350 of 536 posts

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#341

Post by inclemnet »

aianus wrote: post #134
pjmlp wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From an European point of view, the US university system is crazy. In many European countries the value of state universities over private ones is very high regarded, that except for a few well renowned exceptions, private universities are seen as places where you buy a title, not earn one. As they mostly get the students that weren't able to go through the national exams for the state universities.

> From an European point of view, the US university system is crazy. From the US point of view the European system is crazy. Call me a selfish prick but I don't want to pay 50% taxes for the rest of my life subsidizing arts majors' parties because I chose to study something useful.

You don't have to be a selfish prick, merely deluded if you thing much of your taxes would end up in parties for people doing art degrees.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#342

Post by Havoc »

Hardly a u-turn. They went from no fees, to negligible fees (uproar) to no fees.

Also note that "fees" in the German context is a little bit different than other countries. e.g. Some of the compulsory costs are the equivalent to a transport season pass. Whilst I've got mixed feelings about that it sure seems more tangible that X amount of money disappearing into the general varsity fund.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#343

Post by jobu »

endtime wrote: post #326
acadien wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with everything said above, but what about the fact that society will always need plumbers, garbage collectors, fast food employees etc.? I'm not even sure that this is a counter point to what is mentioned above, just more thinking out loud. Is it possible to have a high functioning/efficient society in which there are no economic pressures to motivate people?

> the fact that society will always need plumbers, garbage collectors, fast food employees etc. Is that a fact? I'm sure plenty of people would once have said society will always need human "computers" (now so entirely replaced by machines that the original meaning of the word is a historical factoid). Or that society will always need assembly line workers (now well into the process of being replaced by robots). When…

> On the other hand, the question of what all those folks will/should do once their economic value plummets...

We as a society need to figure this out quickly. There's a video called Humans Need Not Apply that everyone should see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#344

Post by VBprogrammer »

rthomas6 wrote: post #297
acadien wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with everything said above, but what about the fact that society will always need plumbers, garbage collectors, fast food employees etc.? I'm not even sure that this is a counter point to what is mentioned above, just more thinking out loud. Is it possible to have a high functioning/efficient society in which there are no economic pressures to motivate people?

If you believe some people, one day all those jobs will be automated away.

Garbage collection could be automated tomorrow if we wanted. Fast food is just a matter of us not trying hard enough but plumbers is a difficult one.

Not saying it couldn't happen. Two scenarios I could see are everyone lives in a prefab home, when things start to go wrong you just replace it. That leaves all the plumbing to just cutting and bending pipes to pre-built designs and installing it in prearranged steps. I could see that being possible.

Another interesting case could be that all houses are 3d printed, with cavities for plumbing printed right into the fabric of the building, and possibly sealed in someway.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#345

Post by usrusr »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #19

Has there been any extensive research done on relationship between university fees and social mobility? On one hand it seems obvious that if you reduce costs of attending university you remove a barrier that would prevent economically disadvantaged people from attending. But on the other hand, university students, especially those at the best universities disproportionately come from better economic backgrounds and t…

> In this case it doesn't seem fair to tax people who are poor to pay for something that is mainly of benefit to the rich.

Even the uneducated tend to be better off in a country with a high education average than in a country where everybody is on their level. I'd rather be an illiterate in the Sweden, Switzerland or the USA (to take a few samples from all over the spectrum between welfare and market) than in any of the many countries that never succeeded in building a true culture of education.

You may question the causality of this (does education cause wealth or does wealth cause education?) but i doubt that it would even be possible to bootstrap high education with a market-only approach even under the most beneficial circumstances otherwise. I'm no expert in the history of American education institutions, but i'd be surprised if they were not founded with intentions more along the lines of the greater good of the colony or whatever local scope the founders were thinking of, than along the lines of offering even better opportunities for the rich. At the time, most of the truly rich were probably quite happy sending their offspring back to England anyway.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#346

Post by chenelson »

ajmurmann wrote: post #295
chenelson wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should the king dictate what Who does with their time?

Well, it's not the king but the government representing the people who are paying the bills.

I see, thanks for clarifying. Perhaps you can use your superior education to explain when and where the terms "right" and "left" were defined; and then help me understand how liberalization of education and training over time has been counterproductive to society.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#347

Post by mahyarm »

zwieback wrote: post #302

Another point: US universities look very different from German ones. I live in Corvallis (OSU) now but grew up and went to school in Stuttgart Germany. Compared to the German universities our US schools are country clubs: dorms, restaurants, coffee shops, fitness clubs, green spaces everywhere. Don't even get me started on the sports, it's an outrage how US schools have become sports franchises. I'm guessing most US…

Hiring person tutors once in a while in this situation is miles ahead in cost/benefit ratio compared to an american university. And with the Berliner comment, it sounds like you can still get feedback and questions answered.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#348

Post by legomylibrum »

zwieback wrote: post #302

Another point: US universities look very different from German ones. I live in Corvallis (OSU) now but grew up and went to school in Stuttgart Germany. Compared to the German universities our US schools are country clubs: dorms, restaurants, coffee shops, fitness clubs, green spaces everywhere. Don't even get me started on the sports, it's an outrage how US schools have become sports franchises. I'm guessing most US…

I'm no fan of how enormous college sports have become, but fwiw they are enormous sources of income and despite the extravagant stadiums and suchlike, they often pay for valuable research, courses, and amenities.

What's troubling about them is the exploitation of the student athletes; the ones that make money give a lot back to the university as a whole.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#349

Post by rb2k_ »

zwieback wrote: post #302

Another point: US universities look very different from German ones. I live in Corvallis (OSU) now but grew up and went to school in Stuttgart Germany. Compared to the German universities our US schools are country clubs: dorms, restaurants, coffee shops, fitness clubs, green spaces everywhere. Don't even get me started on the sports, it's an outrage how US schools have become sports franchises. I'm guessing most US…

Greetings from another Stuttgart expat! :)

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#350

Post by thro1237 »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #194
thro1237 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my exactly my point. In the US, many students take an educational loan -- but, I would argue that most students in the lower social strata (e.g. African Americans whose parents have not had the benefit of college education) still think consider it a risky option and that 'it is not for them'. And those who graduate after a student loan are forced to take suboptimal choices (because now they have to pay back t…

>> "consider it a risky option" In the UK system there is no risk. You only have to pay back the loan (form the government) when you are earning over a certain amount per year. It is taken directly from your salary like other taxes. If you never earn enough money you never have to pay it back. If you choose to live and work abroad you don't have to pay either.

I wish there was something like this in the US.
Post reply on HN