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Are Ivy League schools overrated?

andrewgelman.com

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Re: Are Ivy League schools overrated?

#11

Post by ianstallings »

I'd kill for some of the connections I've seen elite school graduates get. For instance If you go to Harvard Business and get your MBA the connections you get may very well lead to riches. The fact that you made it into a such an elite institution leads people to believe, rightly so, that you are capable of great things. So it's easier to get backing or get people to talk to you.

I'm not a graduate of any college but the two guys I work directly with have advanced degrees from MIT and Harvard so I can see first hand how that experience has already helped them.

Re: Are Ivy League schools overrated?

#12

Post by raverbashing »

Yes, you can compare, let's say, average income of graduates over a certain period and see that they're bigger for Ivy League graduates

But of course averages lie more often than not, and I suspect that, income curves are double peaked for the Ivy League graduates (meaning that'll have the "mere mortal" avg salary and the "exceptionals" forming another peak)

Re: Are Ivy League schools overrated?

#13

Post by nemothekid »

dmix wrote: post #2

YC/pg seems to be obsessed with Ivy league kids. When I went to startup school it was at Stanford and I met quite a few ivy league kids from the east coast. Plus a lot of YC companies I read about seem to be started by them.

Seems like confirmation bias. It might just be Ivy League kids (with their most high school performance and/or wealth access) are more likely to be attend events like startup school or start a company. The same factors that attract people to Ivy Leagues may the same as those that attract them to YC.

Re: Are Ivy League schools overrated?

#14

Post by temuze »

If you're committed to going to a college and you get admitted an Ivy, you should absolutely go. Nowadays most of their financial aid plans are fantastic, the professors are amazing, you're surrounded by brilliant people and the reputation is a great perk when finding a job.

Princeton, for example, has financial aid for 60% of its students and the average grant covers 96% of tuition for undergraduates. 75% of students graduate debt free. It's hard to compare other deals to that. Source: http://www.princeton.edu/admission/financialaid/

And of course, many top tier non-Ivy schools are similarly awesome by these criterias and should be grouped together with them in this discussion.

That said, the concept of "going to a good school" is absolutely overrated by employers, as is the concept of needing to go to through a four year liberal arts education. I know many hackers with a high school education who could run rings around some of my ex-classmates when doing honest-to-god software engineering.

However, what college education lacks in practicality, it makes up for it in the experience. Having four years to learn what you want and having fun with brilliant young people? Sounds awesome, sign me up again.

Re: Are Ivy League schools overrated?

#15

Post by ahsanup »

bluedino wrote: post #8
ahsanup wrote: post #3

With improved access to high-quality online education, we may soon be asking "Are all colleges overrated?" (Though I think the college experience plays an important part in a teenager's maturation process.)

It will take a generation for the mindset to change that a purely online degree or a collection of classes from something like EdX are equal to 'Degree from State U'.

For the masses, yes. But for those willing to take their future into their own hands, I think you'll see a shift away from traditional college education.

Really think that apprenticeship should make a comeback in America. I know I would have benefited from spending some time in industry after high school.

Re: Are Ivy League schools overrated?

#16

Post by rifung »

ahsanup wrote: post #3

With improved access to high-quality online education, we may soon be asking "Are all colleges overrated?" (Though I think the college experience plays an important part in a teenager's maturation process.)

After taking online classes myself, I am going to have to say that they they still have some ways to go. And like you say, the courses themselves are only part of the value of college. That's not to say that eventually online courses won't be as useful. Perhaps the best thing would be some combination of the two, being able to learn from world class professors while also having a local community to meet with who are doing the same.

Re: Are Ivy League schools overrated?

#17

Post by dfxm12 »

raverbashing wrote: post #12

Yes, you can compare, let's say, average income of graduates over a certain period and see that they're bigger for Ivy League graduates But of course averages lie more often than not, and I suspect that, income curves are double peaked for the Ivy League graduates (meaning that'll have the "mere mortal" avg salary and the "exceptionals" forming another peak)

But are the type of people who go to Ivy League schools different from everyone else?

I mean: If you're talented enough to get into Harvard, maybe you don't need a Harvard education to succeed in life (for various definitions of "succeed").

I could have gone to an Ivy League school but chose not to. I really can't fathom having a better college & post-college experience than I did...

Re: Are Ivy League schools overrated?

#18

Post by raverbashing »

dfxm12 wrote: post #17
raverbashing wrote: post #12

Yes, you can compare, let's say, average income of graduates over a certain period and see that they're bigger for Ivy League graduates But of course averages lie more often than not, and I suspect that, income curves are double peaked for the Ivy League graduates (meaning that'll have the "mere mortal" avg salary and the "exceptionals" forming another peak)

But are the type of people who go to Ivy League schools different from everyone else? I mean: If you're talented enough to get into Harvard, maybe you don't need a Harvard education to succeed in life (for various definitions of "succeed"). I could have gone to an Ivy League school but chose not to. I really can't fathom having a better college & post-college experience than I did...

> I mean: If you're talented enough to get into Harvard, maybe you don't need a Harvard education to succeed in life (for various definitions of "succeed").

Exactly what I think.

Of course, there's the contacts, but that's overrated (and you can get them in a couple of other ways)

You just need to consider how many Harvard successful alumni are actually Harvard dropouts.

There's an important value in education, but I think the value of formal education (especially in traditional ways) is diminishing.

Re: Are Ivy League schools overrated?

#19

Post by unknownian »

I started my first year of college this semester at an Ivy. There are flaws, but overall the experience is pretty great, or at least, being around famous professors/thinkers is. I wish it could be extended to more people though. "Egalitarian" opportunities in education seem to go against the idea that some students will work harder and perform better than others though.

Re: Are Ivy League schools overrated?

#20

Post by santaclaus »

taude wrote: post #10

When I first moved east, I was enamored with MIT and Harvard and the whole east-coast-prep-school-thing. Then I worked with a bunch of grads from these schools and was underwhelmed. I was expecting that they'd be smarter and better at what we were doing. That's when I figure out that you go to Ivy League schools because of the doors they open via the people you meet and network with, not because you're going to learn…

MIT is not in the Ivy League!
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