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Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates

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Re: Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates

#71

Post by jMyles »

felixc wrote: post #43
corford wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That actually makes it easier. Build a non-profit competitor, get the press, charities & public behind it and shame the fuckers in to switching. With material like that it would be like shooting fish in a barrel.

One would hope so, but I suspect that they don't care about public perception, and a surprisingly large slice of the public would actually be supportive of punitive treatment of prisoners' families.

> large slice of the public would actually be supportive of punitive treatment of prisoners' families.

I refuse to believe this.

Re: Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates

#72

Post by Spooky23 »

innguest wrote: post #17
rayiner wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't "one company." Different departments of corrections have contracted to hire companies to handle deposits, just as your business might contract with a company to outsource some service. More generally, I'm not saying that the free market doesn't work. I do think market solutions are merely tools to be used in appropriate situations. And when the potential for abuse is high, as with prisons and other tradit…

> There isn't "one company." Ok, so lest we shift the conversation - as right now we're talking about the specific prison and the specific banking corporation that this prison is using as described in the full article - please tell me who is the competitor to JPay. Don't give me "different departments of corrections" blah blah blah. I'm arguing the system as explained in the article is broken specifically because JPa…

Naming the competitors is irrelevant. What is relevant is that these states are not procuring contract services with a competitive process.

In other payment related areas where honest procurement happens, there are a number of companies in the market -- for example welfare EBT card systems are managed nationwide by 5-7 different large payment processors.

Sounds to me that JPay found a loophole in contract law that allowed them to burrow into the bureaucracy. Once a vendor digs in as an incumbent, it's hard to dislodge them.

Re: Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates

#73

Post by gergles »

They also operate the e-mail system that can be used to send e-mail to/from inmates (using a JPay tablet, of course). You have to purchase 'stamps'. For e-mails.[1]

1: http://www.jpayinc.com/email_videograms.html

"One stamp corresponds to one 6000 character message (about the length of one handwritten page), or one attachment."

"JPay’s correctional email service is faster than regular mail, with inmates usually receiving emails within 48 hours." (emphasis added)

Looking up the pricing for a random facility[2], it's $18 for 40 'stamps', each one of which is good for 1 small attachment or 'page' of text. This is fucking extortion.

2: http://www.jpay.com/Facility-Details/Kentucky-Adult-Institut...

Re: Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates

#74

Post by saalweachter »

cgag wrote: post #60
Fjolsvith wrote: post #18

The prison phone systems are also bilking families. In the Alaska prison system, I had to call collect to my family. Phone calls were limited to 15 minutes and they cost my family $33 per call. I hated calling them because I felt so bad about that cost.

They normally charge outrageous amounts for long distance calls, which is basically all their calls. Last year the FCC limited the max rate of calls to 25 cents a minute, or 3.75 for a 15 minute call. Still outrageous, but at least not as insane. They usually charge much less for local calls, and there are a lot of services that will set up a number local to the prison and forward calls to cell phones. It's easy enou…

Yeah, there's outrageous and there's extortion.

Like a $0.10 / kilobyte overage charge on cell phone data plans.

Re: Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates

#75

Post by kenjackson »

ObviousScience wrote: post #53
morgante wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do not call the police. What? So if I'm getting mugged, murdered, or robbed I should just accept it? Or maybe I should build a personal arsenal so as to protect myself from all possible threats from criminals? This all sounds ridiculously Hobbesian to me. I'm no fan of the police, but the alternative isn't a state of nature.

What are the police going to do about your being mugged? I find it interesting that out of three examples, you happened to list one where the police can't possibly intercede without already being there, and your calling only serves to start a pretend hunt for lost property (hint: finding your stolen laptop is not their top priority), but will serve as justification if they want to rough up some local tough later. Aga…

I don't think the poster meant to literally call after he was murdered. But rather before it happens.

There was a recent story about a lady who called the police when someone kicked in her door. She hid on the roof while the criminal looked for her. The police came and got the criminal and took her off the roof. Should she have not called the police when the guy kicked in her door?

Re: Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates

#76

Post by spiritplumber »

jMyles wrote: post #4

The only question that rings to me anymore about these stories: What can I do? What code can I write? What broker can I call? What form can I sign? How can I register my civic will so as to undo this blight? For me, this is the most embarrassing thing about being a United States citizen.

Do not fuck the police.

Do not sell to police.

Re: Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates

#77

Post by jessaustin »

morgante wrote: post #50
bcoates wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good place to start is to refuse to cooperate with evil. The justice system depends on the active and passive cooperation of the general public. Do not call the police. If the police wish to speak with you, on any matter, politely decline. If a known police or corrections employee tries to do business with you or at a place you work, inform them that their kind are not welcome here. Don't underestimate the extent t…

> Do not call the police. What? So if I'm getting mugged, murdered, or robbed I should just accept it? Or maybe I should build a personal arsenal so as to protect myself from all possible threats from criminals? This all sounds ridiculously Hobbesian to me. I'm no fan of the police, but the alternative isn't a state of nature.

Calling the police is like using regular expressions: now you have two problems. You shouldn't expect them to stop crime in progress: if you actually ask a cop she'll tell you that's not their job. Instead, they show up at some random time after the crime is over and do cop things: detain, intimidate, shoot pets, destroy property, confiscate, etc. Why would you invite anyone to your home or neighborhood to do those things? In some cases you have no choice because you're required by law to call the police. Those are the only occasions upon which you should call them.

Re: Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates

#78

Post by jessaustin »

ajb wrote: post #28
GFK_of_xmaspast wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much "diddly squat".

A genuine question: What do you think is utility of this reply? Have you thought about what effect this and similar comments might have (in aggregate) on the political process?

Have you considered the possibility that the "political process" is part of the problem? There are other options.

Re: Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates

#79

Post by jessaustin »

ajiang wrote: post #14
breitling wrote: post #10

"He says he charges only as much as he must to maintain a razor-thin profit margin." I have a hard time believing this. Does any one have experience in this space? The way I understand it, it really shouldn't cost $6+ for an electronic transaction.

I used to do work in this space and personally diligenced JPay for investment purposes. Their profit margins are low for the same reason most successful startups have no profit - growth. They're growing incredibly fast, investing in sales and marketing efforts (as well as the 'commissions'). Take out the growth aspects, you have a company with very high gross margins.

Is this company in any sense a startup? They seem like a utility to me. I've never seen any ads they've run, and I can't imagine an ad volume that would justify $6 emails, so "sales and marketing" seems to be a euphemism for "lobbying, bribery, and personal entertainment slush-fund". This much basically-stolen money being thrown around is bound to erode ethics. It will surprise no one if multiple principals of this firm get to use these services personally within the decade.

Re: Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates

#80

Post by ajiang »

For the record, it's this exact injustice that kicked off Bayes Impact. Pyduan and I sat at dinner talking about my past life in private equity where I spent a lot of time looking at private prison companies, including JPay. There are huge barriers of entry into these markets, particularly in having close relationships with the decision makers: commissioners of the Department of Corrections.

The answer we came up with was a nonprofit that could develop strong relationships with civic institutions and be free from conflicts of interest and profit motives. This is a very poorly incentivized market, and startups will have a tough time disrupting the existing players because such perverse incentives exist. If anyone is interested in learning more, feel free to shoot me a message, and I'm happy to chat.

FYI, JPay is moving into all modes of communications and media, including email, video chats, music, etc. For families looking to keep in touch with their loved ones in jail, they are essentially the Apple in jails.

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