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U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data

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Re: U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data

#181

Post by chaz72 »

diminoten wrote: post #154
chaz72 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has staked their reputation on the line and said "send us an NSL if you like, we have nothing we can give you". And the cryptographic principles, if executed properly, are sound. Maybe they're lying. Maybe Snowden 2.0 will come out next year and tell us the truth and instantly destroy their credibility. That's a gamble I wouldn't take with my company, but it's plausible. See I figure, if you're a threat to Nati…

What makes you think it's such a big gamble? People just don't care about privacy as much as the news would have you believe. Don't believe me? Quick, think of one of the largest and most consistently flagrant private entities who violates the privacy of its users on a regular basis, and is well known for it. Did you say Google? Facebook? Now quickly think of two of the largest companies on the Internet, both in reve…

Until Apple promised it so explicitly, I'd have said you might be right. True, Google and Facebook make zillions off of monitoring people for advertisers. That will make it harder for them to follow suit, there will be far more weasel words and such when they try.

I think those of us that are willing to pay the premium for something that promises more have higher expectations. If they are lying, I believe we'll know within the next year or two and we'll get to find out if you're right.

Re: U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data

#182

Post by diminoten »

raquo wrote: post #177
diminoten wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, but that plays into the US's very strange views on sex. It feels like an exception, rather than the general rule.

US has strange views on a lot of things, including the one in question – privacy.

I don't think the US's views on sex and the US's views on privacy are quite comparable, given the 500 year history that comes with our weird prudishness.

Re: U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data

#183

Post by AnthonyMouse »

diminoten wrote: post #157
declan wrote: post #152

I was living in DC during the first Crypto Wars of the late 1990s and covering them as a reporter (I've since shifted to working on recent.io, of course). It sure looks like this will be Crypto Wars II: the Feds Strike Back. From my experience a key question to ask is: What would the eventual law say? Will it make it a federal felony to possess an encrypted phone? Or a federal felony to sell one? The FBI endorsed H.R…

I may be as naive as hell here, but when you go from, "we don't want US citizens selling crypto devices to terrorists" to "Timmy's going to see the inside of a jail cell for 20 years for giving Mark a copy of TailsOS" I just can't see how a judge or jury would let it go that far, and I don't think unintended consequences have ever gotten that bad. It just smacks of fear-mongering. "They'll literally lock up your chil…

> It just smacks of fear-mongering. "They'll literally lock up your children!"

Prosecutors had every intention of sending Aaron Swartz to prison. We don't need more stupid laws, we need to remove the existing ones.

Re: U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data

#184

Post by sitkack »

diminoten wrote: post #169
declan wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, sorry, you're naive. :) The law != common sense. If a law is on the books, it may be applied broadly, even to Timmy and Mark. That's why it's important to ensure the laws are sensible before they're enacted. Here's one example. Let's say there's a 16-year old girl and a 17-year old boy who are in a consensual dating relationship and, you know, take some racy photos of one other. The photos were taken consensuall…

Ah, but that plays into the US's very strange views on sex. It feels like an exception, rather than the general rule.

Yes, but... the law is not rational. It will execute the code you give it.

Re: U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data

#185

Post by mark_l_watson »

I remember in the 1990s when the FBI and NSA were doing the good work: going after organized crime syndicates on the web, making public advice for US businesses to secure their networks, releasing Linux and Windows security patches, etc.

Times have changed.

Re: U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data

#186

Post by sitkack »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #134
GHFigs wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth -- and here I have to wonder how much it's worth to criticize someone's point of view based on a photograph of them -- that's a dress uniform . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dress_uniform

Sometimes a photo tells you all you need to know about a person: e.g., http://i.imgur.com/4CIFpFe.jpg . Modern American law enforcement: a gang of wannabe tinpot dictators with weapons they have no business with, and that they probably have no idea how to use. Finger off the trigger, Sheriff.

Not only is his finger on the trigger but the weapon is cocked.

Re: U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data

#187

Post by rogerhoward »

xnull wrote: post #103

I hypothesize that this is a coordinated yet simple ruse to rebuild trust in these brands post-Snowden [1][2]. There was similar press coverage regarding the DEA and iCloud encryption that was misreported in a similar way [3]. The Intercept (where Glenn Greenwald is now reporting from) has a story on what data Apple can still easily give away if you do believe they can't decrypt individual machines [4]. But maybe you…

But the article isn't just talking about the NSA and National Security Letters - this is about law enforcement. If Apple and Google claim to be technically unable to comply with LE requests, it won't take long to see whether that is indeed the case or not - unlike national security-related demands, law enforcement won't be able to keep their successes or failures at demanding access to this data a secret.

If this was tech companies claiming to no longer comply with NSL's, I'd be at very least suspicious as there'd be no way to test these doubts short of another Snowden. But this is law enforcement, subject to all kinds of scrutiny in courts across the US. It'll be much easier to see whether Apple and Google are successful at resisting their demands.

Re: U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data

#188

Post by AnthonyMouse »

GHFigs wrote: post #161
gnarbarian wrote: post #8

They are going straight into "think of the children mode" " Smartphone communication is “going to be the preferred method of the pedophile and the criminal. We are going to lose a lot of investigative opportunities." Apparently "what about the terrorists?" isn't as effective anymore. Let's hope the public will see through their manipulative talking points.

They are going straight into "think of the children mode" ... apparently "what about the terrorists?" isn't as effective anymore. "They" in this case is the chief of a metro police department, whose forensic and surveillance resources are more often spent on pedophiles and drug dealers than terrorism. What else would they say? If the article's authors wanted a "what about the terrorists?" quote they would have gone t…

> "They" in this case is the chief of a metro police department, whose forensic and surveillance resources are more often spent on pedophiles and drug dealers than terrorism. What else would they say?

You're saying "pedophiles and drug dealers" as if it wasn't 99% drug dealers.

Re: U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data

#189

Post by gnarbarian »

GHFigs wrote: post #161
gnarbarian wrote: post #8

They are going straight into "think of the children mode" " Smartphone communication is “going to be the preferred method of the pedophile and the criminal. We are going to lose a lot of investigative opportunities." Apparently "what about the terrorists?" isn't as effective anymore. Let's hope the public will see through their manipulative talking points.

They are going straight into "think of the children mode" ... apparently "what about the terrorists?" isn't as effective anymore. "They" in this case is the chief of a metro police department, whose forensic and surveillance resources are more often spent on pedophiles and drug dealers than terrorism. What else would they say? If the article's authors wanted a "what about the terrorists?" quote they would have gone t…

If anything I'm more prone to believe this is disinformation meant to allay our fears and draw us into a false sense of security when using our smartphones. xnull's comment nailed it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8390150

Re: U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data

#190

Post by sitkack »

AJ007 wrote: post #156
cwal37 wrote: post #19

This seems like one of the most obvious media presses I've ever seen. I can't decide whether it's good to see the press that security is getting, and have the same terrible LE quotes show up, or bad that there is such widespread dissemination that LE is unhappy about this and hey if you're a good citizen you will buy a phone we can more easily unlock. Here are the same or similar articles: -WSJ 8[1] and 5[2] days ago…

Whether or not its a coordinated media blitz or just journalists piggybacking on each other for content I don't know. That it is coming out at the same time new iPhones could go either way. Things that people are completely missing about this story: -Big difference between domestic & local law enforcement and NSA/DoD/CIA. Nothing prevents backdooring of a phone or someone spying as the user enters their simple passwo…

Stories need to be in the queue longer than the rate these were published by different news desks. This is obviously a PR push by skilled people placing stories. That is PR, public relations, press relations, people have a full time jobs getting stories placed.

I'd really like to see the government NOT be able to hire PR firms. This is propaganda.

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