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U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data

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Re: U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data

#81

Post by gnarbarian »

razster wrote: post #65
scintill76 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd say this about as close as you can get to a ringing endorsement Or they just want criminals to think that all they have to do is buy an Apple or Google phone, and they can't be caught.

Bingo! This is a stunt to make people who do bad think they're going to be safe. It is all just a clever act. For those who believe this and do bad and get caught, ha!

Exactly. There's no real reason to believe they aren't forcing apple/google to say this while also forcing them to use a flawed encryption algorithm like the eliptic key method with a skeleton key vulnerability.

Re: U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data

#82

Post by ganeumann »

jcoder wrote: post #23
Afforess wrote: post #4

What a terrible article. Excerpt: They have created a system that is a free-for-all for criminals So we should give up all rights to privacy to help catch criminals? What concerns me about this is companies marketing something expressly to allow people to place themselves beyond the law Maybe that says more about your laws than the desire for privacy?

> What a terrible article Those are quotes from interview subjects, not editorialization. If the subject's opinion is horrible, you want that to show through in the article.

The interesting thing is that they're quotes from an NYU law professor who was the "top lawyer" for the FBI from 2011 to 2013. I do wish the reporter had asked him what responsibility he felt for so abusing the public trust that corporate America (of all possible parties!) felt they needed to respond in a way that could seriously raise the hackles of the federal government.

When people abuse the trust put in them, they deserve to lose that trust.

Re: U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data

#83

Post by netcraft »

chaz72 wrote: post #67
brational wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they'd still be able to do that given a warrant? Or is this unwarrantable protection, for lack of a better word?

Nope. They could use a warrant to compel the sender or the recipient of the messages to unlock them or face jail time. But Apple doesn't have the keys.

wouldn't the 5th amendment protect against that?

Re: U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data

#84

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

Ntrails wrote: post #33
eli wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that. I'm sure they anticipated this response, but I think you greatly underestimate how many people subscribe to the "nothing to hide" theory of privacy and/or are genuinely worried this might aid pedophiles or terrorists.

I can't see how you'll see a backlash against the companies on the move, if only because there's no real competition and no value in being "the phone the authorities can easily monitor" The worst case scenario is that they get large amounts of press (not all positive), fight for the rights of their users to have private data, and lose to a government they never expected to defeat. That's still a win.

There is value in not being the pedo/terror phone. That's one of the traditional attacks on information privacy.

Re: U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data

#85

Post by vonmoltke »

slg wrote: post #24
zachdunn wrote: post #5

This is a bit like protesting door locks because they make it harder to pop in and look around.

I don't support what the government is trying to do here, but minimizing this issue like this is not doing us any favors. The issue isn't that law enforcement can no longer "look around" your phone. The issue is that they can no longer get a warrant and use what is on your phone as evidence in an investigation or court case without the phone owner's cooperation. Basically your phone goes from being personal property…

> Basically your phone goes from being personal property that can be used against you as evidence to an extension of your mind that is now subject to 5th amendment protection.

Actually, it does not go that far. The 5th Amendment protects people from being forced to inciminate themselves. Otherwise, a person could be charged with contempt of court, obstruction of justice, or similar crimes. Someone who refuses to decrypt their data when subject to a warrant will face that penalty, just like someone who refuses to answer a subpeona or destroys documents relevant to a counrt case.

Re: U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data

#86

Post by lnanek2 »

freehunter wrote: post #27
[deleted] wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

I've noticed the increase in availability for secure phones (as in, there were zero before and now there is one), but even working in information security, I've never heard of anyone outside of Ars Technica or the like actually buying one, let alone using it. I wouldn't really call that a sharp increase in popularity except, of course, the sharp increase of going from zero to one.

Most drug dealers or johns I see just buy a prepaid phone from Walgreens, i.e. a booty phone. Tracfone doesn't verify whatever you activate with, you can just make up whatever name/address.

Re: U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data

#87

Post by mikeash »

donohoe wrote: post #43
BillFranklin wrote: post #34

The Chicago Chief of Police genuinely said this: >"Apple will become the phone of choice for the pedophile. The average pedophile at this point is probably thinking, I’ve got to get an Apple phone."

Well, if I was trying to break the law then, yeah, I would absolutely go an get an Apple phone if I didn't already have one.

I'd also buy a Toyota or a Honda car, since it's less likely to break down while fleeing the police. Clearly, reliable automobiles are part of a pro-crime agenda.

Re: U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data

#88

Post by avn2109 »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #42

So this does actually pose an interesting conundrum, I think. Setting aside the specifics of this matter, I think that most people would accept that in some circumstances, covert surveillance of suspected criminals is an acceptable law enforcement tool. Of course, it must be subject to suitable (not rubber-stamped) judicial approval, rigorous guidelines, limitations etc. From that perspective, secure and encrypted co…

You're making a thoughtful point here (though one that I happen to strongly disagree with), so I'm not sure why the downvotes.

But anyway, it's worth noting that the publicly switched telephone network, email, SMS, etc. are all wholly compromised and will remain so for the foreseeable future. The reduction in law enforcement snooping ability being contemplated here is tiny by comparison, and they're making an incredible amount of noise about it.

Re: U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data

#89

Post by fab13n »

"What concerns me about this is companies marketing something expressly to allow people to place themselves beyond the law."

This guy has it exactly wrong: it allows people to place themselves beyond the illegal snooping of NSA et al. The one to blame here is the NSA, together with those who failed in their duty as counter-power to administrative abuse.

Re: U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data

#90

Post by baddox »

Afforess wrote: post #4

What a terrible article. Excerpt: They have created a system that is a free-for-all for criminals So we should give up all rights to privacy to help catch criminals? What concerns me about this is companies marketing something expressly to allow people to place themselves beyond the law Maybe that says more about your laws than the desire for privacy?

What's next?! Requiring warrants to search criminals' homes? Giving criminals jury trials? Banning cruel and unusual punishment of criminals?
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