Apple takes down another indie dev • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple takes down another indie dev

#31

Post by enraged_camel » Tue, Sep 30, 2014, 3:33 PM UTC

karl_gluck wrote: post #19

millerm wrote: post #3

It's plainly stated in the terms ( https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ ) Section 10: 10. User interface 10.4 Apps that create alternate desktop/home screen environments or simulate multi-App widget experiences will be rejected So, like it or not, it's what we agree to if we develop apps for iOS.

It's what we "agree" to. As in, we have no other choice. They could write a clause that said your third child must be named Macintosh and everyone would "agree" to it because there is no other option. That does not mean it's right. Consider this: It's the late 1990's and the Terms of Service for Microsoft Windows contains "10.4 Apps that create alternate web browser environments are not allowed". Microsoft has its pa…

>>As in, we have no other choice.

Of course you do. Android, Windows Phone, even Blackberry if that's your thing.

Re: Apple takes down another indie dev

#32

Post by Zikes » Tue, Sep 30, 2014, 3:33 PM UTC

petepete wrote: post #21

karl_gluck wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's what we "agree" to. As in, we have no other choice. They could write a clause that said your third child must be named Macintosh and everyone would "agree" to it because there is no other option. That does not mean it's right. Consider this: It's the late 1990's and the Terms of Service for Microsoft Windows contains "10.4 Apps that create alternate web browser environments are not allowed". Microsoft has its pa…

There are plenty of other choices, though.

Launcher apps have been available on Android since the beginning. I doubt the developer would have seen such a massive initial success on Android unless their app was particularly impressive.

Re: Apple takes down another indie dev

#33

Post by smackfu » Tue, Sep 30, 2014, 3:34 PM UTC

illumen wrote: post #4

It's right in the app store guidelines, you can't make an app launcher thing. The guideline describes exactly this. 10.4 Apps that create alternate desktop/home screen environments or simulate multi-App widget experiences will be rejected

Which part of that is describing this exactly? Is this extension really a home screen alternative? Is this extension showing widgets that simulate multiple apps?

Re: Apple takes down another indie dev

#34

Post by bikamonki » Tue, Sep 30, 2014, 3:34 PM UTC

skrowl wrote: post #11

I know HN is full of Apple zealots, but even they can't defend this kind of stuff.

One of them zealots being a downvoter, huh?

Re: Apple takes down another indie dev

#35

Post by Fando » Tue, Sep 30, 2014, 3:35 PM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #23

Fando wrote: post #15

Eventually an alternative app market free from apple or Google oversight and copyright infringement nonsense will come out. It's about time someone made a significant effort to establish it. Such a market will be profitable too.

[deleted]

I don't know any good alternatives, which ones would you recommend?

Re: Apple takes down another indie dev

#36

Post by moultano » Tue, Sep 30, 2014, 3:35 PM UTC

millerm wrote: post #3

It's plainly stated in the terms ( https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ ) Section 10: 10. User interface 10.4 Apps that create alternate desktop/home screen environments or simulate multi-App widget experiences will be rejected So, like it or not, it's what we agree to if we develop apps for iOS.

>So, like it or not, it's what we agree to

I believe the point of the article is that we don't like it. Terms of Service are not the ultimate arbiter of ethics.

Re: Apple takes down another indie dev

#37

Post by freyrs3 » Tue, Sep 30, 2014, 3:35 PM UTC

karl_gluck wrote: post #19

millerm wrote: post #3

It's plainly stated in the terms ( https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ ) Section 10: 10. User interface 10.4 Apps that create alternate desktop/home screen environments or simulate multi-App widget experiences will be rejected So, like it or not, it's what we agree to if we develop apps for iOS.

It's what we "agree" to. As in, we have no other choice. They could write a clause that said your third child must be named Macintosh and everyone would "agree" to it because there is no other option. That does not mean it's right. Consider this: It's the late 1990's and the Terms of Service for Microsoft Windows contains "10.4 Apps that create alternate web browser environments are not allowed". Microsoft has its pa…

Oh, we most certainly do have a choice, especially as developers. If enough of us don't support their infrastructure or buy their products then we most certainly can effect change and their bottom-line. Don't be upset and powerless, be proactive and don't support Apple in any way.

Re: Apple takes down another indie dev

#38

Post by metaphorm » Tue, Sep 30, 2014, 3:36 PM UTC

karl_gluck wrote: post #19

millerm wrote: post #3

It's plainly stated in the terms ( https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ ) Section 10: 10. User interface 10.4 Apps that create alternate desktop/home screen environments or simulate multi-App widget experiences will be rejected So, like it or not, it's what we agree to if we develop apps for iOS.

It's what we "agree" to. As in, we have no other choice. They could write a clause that said your third child must be named Macintosh and everyone would "agree" to it because there is no other option. That does not mean it's right. Consider this: It's the late 1990's and the Terms of Service for Microsoft Windows contains "10.4 Apps that create alternate web browser environments are not allowed". Microsoft has its pa…

at the time Microsoft had > 90% market share of desktop PC operating systems. currently apple doesn't have even close to this market share for mobile handset/tablet operating systems.

remember, the anti-trust laws are meant to curtail abuses of monopolies. they are almost powerless when a company is not actually a monopoly. that's by design. when a company is not a monopoly the remedy to their abuses is to simply buy from their competitor.

Re: Apple takes down another indie dev

#39

Post by Zikes » Tue, Sep 30, 2014, 3:37 PM UTC

danra wrote: post #27

bradleyland wrote: post #16

It's as if history is repeating itself: Apple rolls out new features/platform. Developer forges ahead in gray area (there's history here with apps that launch other apps). Apple "clarifies" their stance by rejecting said developer's app. (In Apple parlance, clarifying means issuing a firm opinion on their openly stated policy of "we'll know it when we see it".) Development community cries out. Apple remains singularl…

> It's as if history is repeating itself: > Apple rolls out new features/platform. > Developer forges ahead in gray area (there's history here with apps that launch other apps). > Apple "clarifies" their stance by rejecting said developer's app. (In Apple parlance, clarifying means issuing a firm opinion on their openly stated policy of "we'll know it when we see it".) > Development community cries out. > Apple remai…

Another missed step - Apple approved the "gray area" app in the first place.

Re: Apple takes down another indie dev

#40

Post by bradleyland » Tue, Sep 30, 2014, 3:38 PM UTC

karl_gluck wrote: post #19

millerm wrote: post #3

It's plainly stated in the terms ( https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ ) Section 10: 10. User interface 10.4 Apps that create alternate desktop/home screen environments or simulate multi-App widget experiences will be rejected So, like it or not, it's what we agree to if we develop apps for iOS.

It's what we "agree" to. As in, we have no other choice. They could write a clause that said your third child must be named Macintosh and everyone would "agree" to it because there is no other option. That does not mean it's right. Consider this: It's the late 1990's and the Terms of Service for Microsoft Windows contains "10.4 Apps that create alternate web browser environments are not allowed". Microsoft has its pa…

Let's keep some perspective here. Apple holds a minority share of the market. One might argue that the money is on the Apple platform. That leads to the question of why? Maybe it's because Apple's carefully curated experience attracts customers who have a large intersection with the group of customers who are willing to spend money.

If we accept that premise, then what's "right" is what builds that user base. You have to take the bad with the good. I sound like a broken record at this point, but there is plenty of history surrounding apps that act as launchers. That singular feature represents a huge overlap with the primary role of the home screen, and the App Store Guidelines clearly spell out that this is a no-no.

Widgets are a new case, because they're not full fledged apps. A widget could not "create an alternate desktop/home screen environment" because it is only a small part of a greater environment itself (Notification Center). However, the intent of guideline 10.4 is pretty clear. Apple wants to control the means by which users launch applications. That goal serves what Apple believes to be the best interest of users. You can disagree with that, but it's not your platform, and you haven't (yet) built a platform upon which millions of dollars are transacted in app purchases every year.

What I'm saying is that Apple isn't exactly clubbing seals here. They're doing what they believe to be best for their platform, and they're doing it in a way that is pretty consistent with past behavior.