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Area programmer laments designers don’t use the same tools he does

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11–20 of 63 posts

Re: Area programmer laments designers don’t use the same tools he does

#11
post #8

It lends itself to a workflow where sometimes, a user checks out a file, and forgets to unlock it. Or goes on vacation. Then you have to forcibly check out the file your coworker locked to get work done. And when he has to merge his changes with yours again, it’s a gigantic hassle. This exactly describes web development on the Microsoft stack using Visual Source Safe. I don't know if that product exists anymore or st…

You were probably too Microsoft specific in your work environment. CVS is older than most(?) HN posters and had no locking problem. So your pain was not necessary. :-(

(The wikipedia says VSS was bought 1995, so the original product might be older?)

Re: Area programmer laments designers don’t use the same tools he does

#12
post #8

It lends itself to a workflow where sometimes, a user checks out a file, and forgets to unlock it. Or goes on vacation. Then you have to forcibly check out the file your coworker locked to get work done. And when he has to merge his changes with yours again, it’s a gigantic hassle. This exactly describes web development on the Microsoft stack using Visual Source Safe. I don't know if that product exists anymore or st…

Ah, ams6110, I feel your pain, but you have not encountered true agony until you have been subjected to... Perforce (aka p4). It feels like the p4 designers WANTED software development to be harder. Perhaps they recruit developers exclusively from the pool of former TSA agents.

Re: Area programmer laments designers don’t use the same tools he does

#13
One of the more interesting things about 3D printing is that it is igniting this sort of issue. A long time ago (like 1991) I was a working for Sun and representing them at the "CAD Framework Initiative" efforts or CFI. The express goal of this was to create a set of interchange formats for CAD tools so that you could move things from one system to another, you could store and diff changes, and even if your vendor went out of business you could use your designs in another vendor's tool if it was CFI compliant.

Now the irritating part was that Apollo Computer turned it into a DCE RPC vs ONC RPC thing when the committee started leaning toward the simpler RPC/XDR format that Sun had offered. The criminal part was that as soon as it became clear that the group was actually going to succeed nearly all support was yanked. The simple reality was that CAD tools cost literally hundreds of thousands of dollars for a large shop and those vendors desperately needed the 'lock in' effect of a propietary data format and tool chain to keep themselves in play during the inevitable periods where their tools totally sucked (waterfall development at its finest). It still bugs me when I think about it over 20 years later!

So to say I would be a huge supporter of an open CAD standard is an understatement. And now that there is a fairly large body of people who are both code capable and desirous of such a standard in order to create, share, and modify 3D designs, there might be enough energy to make it happen.

Re: Area programmer laments designers don’t use the same tools he does

#14
Larch is a visual programming environment. http://www.larchenvironment.com/

The author also makes a procedural 3D modeler (http://gsculpt.sourceforge.net/). You should definitely check both of them out, and talk to the communities.

One of the main examples in Larch, is of modifying the visual representation of a polygon, rather than the textual representation. See: http://www.larchenvironment.com/what_does_it_do

Re: Area programmer laments designers don’t use the same tools he does

#15
I wonder which tools use people making real things with CNC machines. I assume that there's some specific, not really friendly file format which cannot be edited in some 3dMax or Blender, so some conversion is performed before, but, anyway, there must be some more or less standard workflow, I suppose.

Re: Area programmer laments designers don’t use the same tools he does

#16

One of the more interesting things about 3D printing is that it is igniting this sort of issue. A long time ago (like 1991) I was a working for Sun and representing them at the "CAD Framework Initiative" efforts or CFI. The express goal of this was to create a set of interchange formats for CAD tools so that you could move things from one system to another, you could store and diff changes, and even if your vendor we…

We don't need a standard so much as both a plethora of special purpose tools (these are already here and more are in the works) AND an n:m pandoc style conversion utility. DXF/DWG will be with us for a long while.

Re: Area programmer laments designers don’t use the same tools he does

#17
post #16

One of the more interesting things about 3D printing is that it is igniting this sort of issue. A long time ago (like 1991) I was a working for Sun and representing them at the "CAD Framework Initiative" efforts or CFI. The express goal of this was to create a set of interchange formats for CAD tools so that you could move things from one system to another, you could store and diff changes, and even if your vendor we…

We don't need a standard so much as both a plethora of special purpose tools (these are already here and more are in the works) AND an n:m pandoc style conversion utility. DXF/DWG will be with us for a long while.

The open standard would be pretty helpful, if not sufficient for both. There even are no open source viewers for DWG files for the time being, so if I'm working on some new tool it is woth nothing to me that DWG is popular, because I can't use it without tons of effort.

Re: Area programmer laments designers don’t use the same tools he does

#18
Open Source geometric kernel?

It is called "Open Cascade": http://www.opencascade.org/

It represent decades of hard work from dozens of programmers.License is LGPL.

Freecad is a very promising tool that uses the power of Opencascade only a little(Opencascade supports things that are way more complex than what freecad does).

Everything in Freecad is a script in python.

Re: Area programmer laments designers don’t use the same tools he does

#19

One of the more interesting things about 3D printing is that it is igniting this sort of issue. A long time ago (like 1991) I was a working for Sun and representing them at the "CAD Framework Initiative" efforts or CFI. The express goal of this was to create a set of interchange formats for CAD tools so that you could move things from one system to another, you could store and diff changes, and even if your vendor we…

Robust open-source CAD software would clearly fill a niche.

The problem however, is not so much CAD as the schemas for the data that at gets attached to the models...IGES has been around for many decades, but what one engineer needs for FEA is not what the machinist needs for making the die or the Architect for making pretty pictures.

Re: Area programmer laments designers don’t use the same tools he does

#20

Many years ago, when I was designing a part in AutoCad, I drew it by hand and then back-converted the drawing into parametrized AutoLISP, which I then stored under version control (RCS at the time). It'd be nice to have tools that make this easy. Though I'm honestly surprised more people don't do it anyhow.

With AutoCad or any software that exports DXF or IGES, Git or other version control would work fine. Nemetscheck VectorWorks wil export a design file as VectorScript [a super-set of Pascal].
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