Australian Government Scrambles to Authorize Mass Surveillance • Hacker News Board

Re: Australian Government Scrambles to Authorize Mass Surveillance

#61

Post by thomasfoster96 » Thu, Sep 25, 2014, 12:41 PM UTC

1stop wrote: post #59

thomasfoster96 wrote: post #52

'straya! I'm not sure how to feel about Australia's response to ISIS. The right-wing side of politics seems to be going completely over the top in trying to crack down on terrorist cells operating in the country (we did just have two policemen stabbed in what appears to be a terrorism-linked beheading attempt), arguing that security is more important than freedom. Then we've got the left wing side of politics, which…

I don't think there has ever been a "Terrorist" attack in Australia that has targeted "White Australians". I make that qualification based on the fact that a number of foreign embassies have been attacked within Australia, but that is quite a different thing. How was the stabbing "terrorist-linked?" And how is people travelling to the middle east (even to fight), terorrist linked?

You're right and there hasn't been a terrorist incident in Australia targeting Australians (I don't think ISIS is specifically targeting white Australians, rather Australians in general), but I think that there being an 'increased threat level' is still appropriate.

Whether or not the perpetrator of the stabbing had an actual link to ISIS isn't clear, but he had his passport cancelled over concerns he would fly to the Middle East and he had previous posted photos online with the ISIS flag: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/numan-haider-from-teenager...

Of course most Australians travelling to the Middle East are involved in terrorism, but there are Australian residents or citizens travelling to the Middle East to fight adn they have been involved in two suicide bombings as well as apparently joining organisations designated as terrorist by the Australian government, and so I'd say that they are certainly linked to terrorism.

Re: Australian Government Scrambles to Authorize Mass Surveillance

#62

Post by aroberge » Thu, Sep 25, 2014, 12:58 PM UTC

someone234 wrote: post #60

aragot wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talking about university loans, let's take a minute to share and contemplate the awesome system I've discovered in Australia: You can borrow money from the govt for your studies. The interest rate is only equal to the Consumer Price Index. You repay your debt through taxes after you start working, and your taxes are capped to something like 45% of your income. Which means, if your studies don't land you a good job, y…

> it still transfers more responsibility to the student than subsidizing education to make it free Nothing can be made free by subsidizing it. The cost is hidden, but it's certainly still there. When a government subsidizes something, it's just transferring wealth from some people to others. The end result is much worse, because no one uses other people's money in a prudent way, and no one knows what the best use for…

So, you are arguing for K to 12 education to be private? And you are arguing for public health systems outside of the US to adopt the US model which is much more expensive with no demonstrated better outcome for the general population?

Re: Australian Government Scrambles to Authorize Mass Surveillance

#63

Post by pessimizer » Thu, Sep 25, 2014, 1:18 PM UTC

RubyPinch wrote: post #26

prawn wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is all you need to know about government and opposition in "times like these" - a satirical piece from The Shovel: Labor Party To Close Down Until After Iraq War: http://www.theshovel.com.au/2014/09/23/labor-party-to-close-... On hearing the news, Prime Minister Tony Abbott said, “Until this war concludes, we’ll just have two parties saying the same thing, so it makes sense to put one away for now”. Labor leader…

> Here is all you need to know 4 sentences I mean, I know some love to think that a blog / tv show full of snarky jokes gives a hint of political driving forces behind decisions, or, you know, anything political in the slightest but they don't, they are just snarky jokes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

Re: Australian Government Scrambles to Authorize Mass Surveillance

#64

Post by dalore » Thu, Sep 25, 2014, 1:24 PM UTC

aragot wrote: post #43

andrewstuart wrote: post #7

Prime Minister Abbott needs to whip up hysteria and panic to try to distract people from his government's incredibly poor performance and disastrous budget. A nice solid war along with deep fear mongering should regain control of the media message. I simply don't believe we are under threat of attack from knife wielding beheading terrorists. The poor kid who died the other day was probably just mentally ill but its t…

As a French person, I lived in Australia. People often kindly made fun of not only our strikes, but of my rebelious mind and constant tendency to protest and organize against negative change. I would kindly make fun of their extreme docility on knee-jerk rules such as residential and corporate policies. Unfortunately, seeing this example, I still wish Australians were keener to be involved in politics and defend thei…

All Australians are involved in politics somewhat, because it's one of the few countries where voting is compulsory.

That also means that Abbott, unfortunately, represents a majority of the population, not just the politically motivated individuals who would vote without compulsion.

Re: Australian Government Scrambles to Authorize Mass Surveillance

#65

Post by cromulent » Thu, Sep 25, 2014, 1:30 PM UTC

1stop wrote: post #59

thomasfoster96 wrote: post #52

'straya! I'm not sure how to feel about Australia's response to ISIS. The right-wing side of politics seems to be going completely over the top in trying to crack down on terrorist cells operating in the country (we did just have two policemen stabbed in what appears to be a terrorism-linked beheading attempt), arguing that security is more important than freedom. Then we've got the left wing side of politics, which…

I don't think there has ever been a "Terrorist" attack in Australia that has targeted "White Australians". I make that qualification based on the fact that a number of foreign embassies have been attacked within Australia, but that is quite a different thing. How was the stabbing "terrorist-linked?" And how is people travelling to the middle east (even to fight), terorrist linked?

Would you classify the Russell St Bombing as terrorism?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Street_Bombing

Edit: or maybe the Sydney Hilton bombing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Hilton_Hotel_bombing

Re: Australian Government Scrambles to Authorize Mass Surveillance

#66

Post by exhilaration » Thu, Sep 25, 2014, 1:58 PM UTC

1stop wrote: post #58

girvo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funniest part is seeing the headlines: "TERRORIST SHOOTING" No, the "terrorist" was shot, he didn't shoot anyone. I'm more and more disgusted with my country lately.

I'm amazed everyone is referring to him as a "Terrorist"... How is his actions different from just a normal "Crazy person attacked a police officer" ?

Was he brown?

Re: Australian Government Scrambles to Authorize Mass Surveillance

#67

Post by aragot » Thu, Sep 25, 2014, 2:22 PM UTC

someone234 wrote: post #60

aragot wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talking about university loans, let's take a minute to share and contemplate the awesome system I've discovered in Australia: You can borrow money from the govt for your studies. The interest rate is only equal to the Consumer Price Index. You repay your debt through taxes after you start working, and your taxes are capped to something like 45% of your income. Which means, if your studies don't land you a good job, y…

> it still transfers more responsibility to the student than subsidizing education to make it free Nothing can be made free by subsidizing it. The cost is hidden, but it's certainly still there. When a government subsidizes something, it's just transferring wealth from some people to others. The end result is much worse, because no one uses other people's money in a prudent way, and no one knows what the best use for…

You're correct, but I believe you have been downvoted because instead of quoting general economist mottos about the misuse of public money, you could have cited factual examples. In fact in my (free) French engineering school, I know quite a minority of people who intended to become actors, musicians, sound technicians, travellers... (and succeeded). As much as I like the idea that artists have a knowledge of how the technical world works, I believe the Australian govt is the smartest at spending this money.

Re: Australian Government Scrambles to Authorize Mass Surveillance

#68

Post by broodbucket » Thu, Sep 25, 2014, 2:35 PM UTC

dalore wrote: post #64

aragot wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a French person, I lived in Australia. People often kindly made fun of not only our strikes, but of my rebelious mind and constant tendency to protest and organize against negative change. I would kindly make fun of their extreme docility on knee-jerk rules such as residential and corporate policies. Unfortunately, seeing this example, I still wish Australians were keener to be involved in politics and defend thei…

All Australians are involved in politics somewhat, because it's one of the few countries where voting is compulsory. That also means that Abbott, unfortunately, represents a majority of the population, not just the politically motivated individuals who would vote without compulsion.

Abbott represents a majority of the population because the majority of the population knows about politics from the mass media, which is almost entirely owned by Rupert Murdoch, who printed nothing but pro-Abbott and anti-Labor content for months.

Re: Australian Government Scrambles to Authorize Mass Surveillance

#69

Post by Trezoid » Thu, Sep 25, 2014, 2:48 PM UTC

aragot wrote: post #40

grecy wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been out of Australia for many years now, though I always figured I would go home to raise a family one day. Everyone I talk to now says it's getting destroyed by Abbott and his policies. Less sending on Health, Education. Privatized university loans (with interest - even for those with existing HECS debt), very overreaching surveillance. I hate to say it, but it might not be worth going back after Abbott has ha…

Talking about university loans, let's take a minute to share and contemplate the awesome system I've discovered in Australia: You can borrow money from the govt for your studies. The interest rate is only equal to the Consumer Price Index. You repay your debt through taxes after you start working, and your taxes are capped to something like 45% of your income. Which means, if your studies don't land you a good job, y…

And as a domestic student those fees are also subsidized so the actual debt is relatively small (software engineering at a middling university ends up just shy of $30k for the entire degree)

Re: Australian Government Scrambles to Authorize Mass Surveillance

#70

Post by rayiner » Thu, Sep 25, 2014, 3:01 PM UTC

aragot wrote: post #43

andrewstuart wrote: post #7

Prime Minister Abbott needs to whip up hysteria and panic to try to distract people from his government's incredibly poor performance and disastrous budget. A nice solid war along with deep fear mongering should regain control of the media message. I simply don't believe we are under threat of attack from knife wielding beheading terrorists. The poor kid who died the other day was probably just mentally ill but its t…

As a French person, I lived in Australia. People often kindly made fun of not only our strikes, but of my rebelious mind and constant tendency to protest and organize against negative change. I would kindly make fun of their extreme docility on knee-jerk rules such as residential and corporate policies. Unfortunately, seeing this example, I still wish Australians were keener to be involved in politics and defend thei…

> I still wish Australians were keener to be involved in politics and defend their awesome land, culture and economy.

It's worth thinking about whether the culture and the economy is at least partly due to Australians' docility about these sorts of things. Always rebelling and protesting isn't necessarily conducive to working together efficiently.