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Why India's Mars mission is so cheap – and thrilling

bbc.com

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Re: Why India's Mars mission is so cheap – and thrilling

#21

Post by grownseed »

kazinator wrote: post #2

How about reliable electricity and water for your people, then Mars. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_Resources_in_India "Water supply and sanitation in India continue to be inadequate ..." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_India "Over 300 million (300 million) people in India have no access to electricity. Of those who do, almost all find electricity supply intermittent and unreliable."

This is what I show people with this perspective: http://me.brandabrand.com/t/letter-by-ernst-stuhlinger/6288. It's clever, touching and to the point.

Re: Why India's Mars mission is so cheap – and thrilling

#22

Post by spindritf »

thirsteh wrote: post #5
kazinator wrote: post #2

How about reliable electricity and water for your people, then Mars. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_Resources_in_India "Water supply and sanitation in India continue to be inadequate ..." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_India "Over 300 million (300 million) people in India have no access to electricity. Of those who do, almost all find electricity supply intermittent and unreliable."

You might as well ask the same question about anything the U.S. does, given that the U.S. undisputedly has "more important" and unresolved domestic problems. In the words of Carl Sagan: "Just now, there a great many matters that are pressing in on us that compete for the money it takes to send people to other worlds. Should we solve those problems first, or are they a reason for going? "

The US does have more important and unresolved domestic problems but there are vanishingly few that could be solved with just more money.

Re: Why India's Mars mission is so cheap – and thrilling

#23

Post by bsder »

kazinator wrote: post #2

How about reliable electricity and water for your people, then Mars. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_Resources_in_India "Water supply and sanitation in India continue to be inadequate ..." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_India "Over 300 million (300 million) people in India have no access to electricity. Of those who do, almost all find electricity supply intermittent and unreliable."

Because the technology to send a spacecraft to another planet is the same technology to solve terrestrial problems.

The Internet, nominally the single biggest technology solution for the developing world ever, runs on compression and error correction algorithms that were first implemented for Voyager.

A manned mission to Mars must solve a the problem of a closed ecosystem. Think that might be important to developing countries who are polluting terribly (just like everybody did) in an effort to modernize?

You can't solve everything. There will always be some problems.

And, get enough good scientists together and those same scientists will start demanding that you make progress on domestic fronts as well.

Re: Why India's Mars mission is so cheap – and thrilling

#24

Post by zizee »

Why do people always pass judgment on spending on things they don't agree with as if the money is destroyed. It's not like they pile all the cash onto the rocket and send it to space.

Let's just forget for a moment that valuable skills and infrastructure are being created for India in this process and look at where the money is going.

A large proportion of the expense of this mission goes to paying the wages of domestic scientists and engineers in India. This money will in turn get taxed and spent by the recipients and pumped back into the local economy.

As far as I can see it is a win win win.

Re: Why India's Mars mission is so cheap – and thrilling

#25

Post by sliverstorm »

jgmmo wrote: post #19

"They've kept it small. The payload weighs only about 15kg. " Whoa... So basically that whole mission was for 30ish pounds of actual 'useful equipment' in orbit?

Yes. Remember that cost per kg for a launch- just in fuel costs- is still something like five figures USD.

Weight is a tremendous source of cost savings. Compare to the Mars Science Laboratory, at 3,893 kg. They might have spent $150k in fuel costs, while we might have spent $38M.

Re: Why India's Mars mission is so cheap – and thrilling

#26

Post by chc »

manish_gill wrote: post #20
chc wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pure ad hominem. "The West is dumb and mean" doesn't make anybody else's actions smart. You may as well criticize their odor for all the relevance it has to whether or not this is a sensible use of India's money. For the record, I actually think it's probably a good use of money. I just think this breed of response — "Shut up, because the West sucks!" — is singularly toxic.

The article in question specifically criticizes the journalists. The author (in subsequent comments) even discourages others from blatantly generalizing countries' reaction in the same manner as some of the components of the media.

The OP doesn't really do that. The article linked by pushtheenvelope does, but that is what I was criticizing. It doesn't actually support India's program; it mostly just makes sarcastic and hostile comments about other countries. Regardless of your opinion of the West or of India, personally attacking critics (based on their ethnicity, no less) is not the same thing as supporting an idea.

Re: Why India's Mars mission is so cheap – and thrilling

#27

Post by tn13 »

kazinator wrote: post #2

How about reliable electricity and water for your people, then Mars. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_Resources_in_India "Water supply and sanitation in India continue to be inadequate ..." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_India "Over 300 million (300 million) people in India have no access to electricity. Of those who do, almost all find electricity supply intermittent and unreliable."

Remind me again how much surplus money did US have to fight wars in Iraq ? Please tell me that US is overflowing with so much money that they have an army stationed in Germany for absolutely no rational reason.

Why exactly is US spending so much of higher education when most of the public elementary education is good enough to mass produce kids whose only skill is flipping burgers ?

Large nations need to allocate money to all problems proportional to the seriousness of the problem. We have learned how to live with less. My classrooms did not have even a bulb. Did not prevent me from getting good education. My village did not have any water pipeline and we figured out how to survive.

Re: Why India's Mars mission is so cheap – and thrilling

#29

Post by cmdrfred »

spindritf wrote: post #22
thirsteh wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might as well ask the same question about anything the U.S. does, given that the U.S. undisputedly has "more important" and unresolved domestic problems. In the words of Carl Sagan: "Just now, there a great many matters that are pressing in on us that compete for the money it takes to send people to other worlds. Should we solve those problems first, or are they a reason for going? "

The US does have more important and unresolved domestic problems but there are vanishingly few that could be solved with just more money.

Correct, but the majority of them can be solved with a more equitable distribution of said money.

Re: Why India's Mars mission is so cheap – and thrilling

#30

Post by primelens »

chc wrote: post #15
primelens wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you! After reading this same statement about toilets vs space missions dozens of times I could hardly muster anything more articulate than "aaargh!" Apparently the West had solved all of humanity's problems and ensured a reign of perfect equality and peace before embarking on trivial things like research!

This is pure ad hominem. "The West is dumb and mean" doesn't make anybody else's actions smart. You may as well criticize their odor for all the relevance it has to whether or not this is a sensible use of India's money. For the record, I actually think it's probably a good use of money. I just think this breed of response — "Shut up, because the West sucks!" — is singularly toxic.

You misunderstand my argument if you read it as "the West is dumb and mean". What I meant to emphasize was that the West made the (IMHO right) decision, to spend on research etc while it was working on other social problems. It is never one or the other. But I would add the same model should be extended to other countries as well.
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