Now that all the physicists are reading, I have a question: Are the trajectories of light beams following the curvature of space-time reversible? In other words, if I reflect a light beam back on itself, does it return to its source? Because if that's true (and my feeble understanding is that it is true), then light can't enter a black hole or the reverse path would allow light to escape. What am I missing here?
Rethinking the origins of the universe
21–30 of 141 posts
Re: Rethinking the origins of the universe
#22What many people seem to overlook is that gravity is linked to time (space time)! So instead of the "black hole" being massive, it could be that time is running fast!
You can't create time distortions without gravity distortions, and you can't create gravity distortions without instantiating mass, so... big massive black holes have to be running slow; if they exist at all and aren't just cosmic bees sitting at the 2D boundary of the universe and projecting nothingness into our inflated space.
Re: Rethinking the origins of the universe
#23Not as conclusive as the evidence for black holes. Remember that the article's hypothesis requires proof that black holes do not exist -- in other words, proof of a negative. Proof of a negative is generally regarded as an impossible evidentiary burden, and calls into doubt the hypothesis that relies on it.
There's pretty good evidence for very large, very dense masses at the center of most galaxies including our own. The default conclusion based on the evidence is that they're black holes -- they have the right mass and density.
We should all remember that a mathematical theory isn't a scientific theory until observation bears it out (produces positive evidence), and to the exclusion of competing explanations.
Re: Rethinking the origins of the universe
#24Now that all the physicists are reading, I have a question: Are the trajectories of light beams following the curvature of space-time reversible? In other words, if I reflect a light beam back on itself, does it return to its source? Because if that's true (and my feeble understanding is that it is true), then light can't enter a black hole or the reverse path would allow light to escape. What am I missing here?
Re: Rethinking the origins of the universe
#25What many people seem to overlook is that gravity is linked to time (space time)! So instead of the "black hole" being massive, it could be that time is running fast!
I would have put it the other way around. Time passes more slowly near large masses relative to other locations.
Re: Rethinking the origins of the universe
#26What many people seem to overlook is that gravity is linked to time (space time)! So instead of the "black hole" being massive, it could be that time is running fast!
Well, "linked" is vague. They aren't linked—they are the same thing! Gravity is an effect mass has on the upholstery of the universe. Time runs slower for us here inside the gravity well of Earth than it does for astronauts in zero gravity. You can't create time distortions without gravity distortions, and you can't create gravity distortions without instantiating mass, so... big massive black holes have to be runnin…
If you're speaking of time and space, no, they're different -- they're certainly all part of one spacetime, but they're distinct. This distinct:
t' = t √(1-v^2/c^2)
t = time
v = velocity
c = speed of light
t' = time at velocity v relative to velocity 0
Put into words, this special relativity relationship shows that an increase in velocity (movement in space) causes a reduction in time's rate of passing (movement in time). The general relativity version has more terms, and shows a relationship between mass and both space and time.
So space, time and mass aren't the same thing, but they're part of an interrelated system, one easily described mathematically.
> Time runs slower for us here inside the gravity well of Earth than it does for astronauts in zero gravity.
Yes, true, but astronauts in orbit aren't in zero gravity, they're in free-fall. The gravitational force at typical orbital heights is nearly as strong as it is at the surface.
Re: Rethinking the origins of the universe
#27So... Hollywood? Star Trek wasn't filmed on location - Desilu and Paramount were both located in Hollywood.
Not that this, y'know, matters - just found it amusing.
Re: Rethinking the origins of the universe
#28I am a literary critic, though, and I have to say that it's bittersweet news at best. Black holes are so much a part of the space-age imagination. The article mentions Hollywood, but black holes are woven deeply into our everyday metaphors and have been for decades. They have stood among the most wondrous things in the universe -- an awe-inspiring thing.
It reminds me a bit of when the press reported that the Catholic Church had "gotten rid of Limbo" (the actual case was a bit more complex, and involved some fairly weighty theology).
Then again, we all still talk of things "being in Limbo." Perhaps that next project will still be a black hole, even if it turns out that there's no such thing.
Re: Rethinking the origins of the universe
#29"In 1974, Stephen Hawking used quantum mechanics to show that black holes emit radiation. Since then, scientists have detected fingerprints in the cosmos that are consistent with this radiation, identifying an ever-increasing list of the universe’s black holes." Er, what? I don't think this is true, or Hawking would have his Nobel prize by now. Maybe consistent in the sense that the predictions are that Hawking radia…
Hawking not getting a Nobel by now doesn't mean much. Einstein never got one for relativity (either Special or General), and when he did get his Nobel he was told not to mention "relativity" in his speech.
Re: Rethinking the origins of the universe
#30Now that all the physicists are reading, I have a question: Are the trajectories of light beams following the curvature of space-time reversible? In other words, if I reflect a light beam back on itself, does it return to its source? Because if that's true (and my feeble understanding is that it is true), then light can't enter a black hole or the reverse path would allow light to escape. What am I missing here?
So what happens if you direct a beam of light radially into a black hole? A distant observer will calculate that as the light beam descends into the black hole it will be (according to a distant observer) progressively blueshifted until it reaches the event horizon, at which point it will have blueshifted to infinite energy. In fact, according to the calculations of a distant observer, the light beam will never cross the event horizon, so the statement that the light beam is reversible remains true. The reason that the light beam (according to the distant observer) doesn't cross the horizon is that if you look at the metric, it states that ds^2 = (1 - R_Schw / r) c^2 dt^2 - 1 / (1 - R_Schw / r) dr^2, where R_Schw is the radius of the event horizon. Notice that at the event horizon r = R_Schw and the dr^2 term diverges. The distant observer therefore concludes that there is a singularity at the event horizon. This analysis lead physicists to initially conclude that black holes were unphysical.
A more careful analysis reveals that this isn't the case, however. We have been using this metric which describes the shape of spacetime according to a distant observer. But what we're really concerned with is not what a distant observer calculates, but how a local observer perceives spacetime. If we now switch to a coordinate system in which we are free falling into the black hole along with the beam of light, we find that nothing remarkable happens when we cross the event horizon. The light is blueshifted relative to its initial energy, but it doesn't have an infinite amount of energy. Thus there is no true singularity at the event horizon. This singularity that the distant observer found must therefore have been an artifact of the particular coordinate system that the distant observer was using. The free falling observer can then hold up a mirror and send off a light beam and have it return back to him even after they have crossed the event horizon.