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Israel’s N.S.A. Scandal

nytimes.com

121–130 of 146 posts

Re: Israel’s N.S.A. Scandal

#121
Over 10 years ago I had a friend who confided that he left his unit, Israels unit 8200, that he had wanted for years to get in because he was disturbed by the type of intelligence they gathered. He explained they would go into the west bank in the middle of the night and monitor valleys waiting in hopes that a Palestinian would masturbate or better take part in some bestiality that they could photograph to use as blackmail. He clarified that these were not targets in some terrorist organization, remotely connected to one. They were just random people. He spent almost a year in intense training learning how to be a covert scout and a sniper. I remember he was beaming for that period of time. But no more than a month after training ended he quit the unit (started his exit from it at least) and told me what was happening.

Re: Israel’s N.S.A. Scandal

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Palantir has their hand in all of this. What is the evidence for this statement? (I read the fine article, and didn't see a lot of discussion of the business corporation Palantir there.)

They're the only company that has the technology to parse / analyze datasets like the ones mentioned in the article.

can you be more specific? the xkeyscore100 rule set leak seems to indicate hadoop map reduce use which to me indicates a vanilla build out of the NSAs own. so what could you use to show more clear involvement from Palantir

Re: Israel’s N.S.A. Scandal

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is about emotion, not logical conclusions. Today, the number one threat to our freedom comes from the prospect of terrorist attacks on US soil. Even with this fact, we see endless complaints about the NSA. However, even the NSA's biggest critics can't answer simple questions about the supposed danger they pose: 1. Cite a single example of an American citizen suffering any type of loss or damages resulting from t…

>Today, the number one threat to our freedom comes from the prospect of terrorist attacks on US soil. This is only because of the actions the US government would certainly take in response, i.e. eliminate various freedoms that still remain. (I wonder if it's appropriate to speak of 'freedom' anymore? Most of the stuff in the Bill of Rights seems more like revokable privileges at this point.)

> This is only because of the actions the US government would certainly take in response

Happy to see that you agree. To take your assertion a step further, the US government would likely take such action through the legislative branch, duly elected by US citizens. It is those citizens who would demand that legislators take action.

Re: Israel’s N.S.A. Scandal

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Today, the number one threat to our freedom comes from the prospect of terrorist attacks on US soil. This is only because of the actions the US government would certainly take in response, i.e. eliminate various freedoms that still remain. (I wonder if it's appropriate to speak of 'freedom' anymore? Most of the stuff in the Bill of Rights seems more like revokable privileges at this point.)

> This is only because of the actions the US government would certainly take in response Happy to see that you agree. To take your assertion a step further, the US government would likely take such action through the legislative branch, duly elected by US citizens. It is those citizens who would demand that legislators take action.

In theory, the whole reason those legislators are there is to insulate the country from knee-jerk reactions on the part of the citizenry (or a vocal component thereof.) The framers understood that direct democracy wouldn't be sustainable.

Instead, what we've seen since 9/11 is that the legislators themselves are the ones who are afraid of their own shadow. Just as nobody marched in the streets after 9/11, demanding that George Bush invade Iraq, nobody begged the NSA to implement ubiquitous domestic surveillance capabilities with no effective oversight. These are crimes of opportunity.

Re: Israel’s N.S.A. Scandal

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Today, the number one threat to our freedom comes from the prospect of terrorist attacks on US soil. This is only because of the actions the US government would certainly take in response, i.e. eliminate various freedoms that still remain. (I wonder if it's appropriate to speak of 'freedom' anymore? Most of the stuff in the Bill of Rights seems more like revokable privileges at this point.)

> This is only because of the actions the US government would certainly take in response Happy to see that you agree. To take your assertion a step further, the US government would likely take such action through the legislative branch, duly elected by US citizens. It is those citizens who would demand that legislators take action.

To some extent, the US government does merely reflect the paranoia and action-at-any-cost attitude of its citizens, as it, and they, go about their daily business of paying mere lip service to freedom and little else. They're also complicit in seeing to it that the culture they govern continues to promote this social trait.

Even so, a democracy which has voted away all its freedom, still can no longer be described as 'free'.

Also, re-reading your previous post, for part #1, parallel construction means there are numerous, in fact literally uncountable (without top secret clearance, anyway), examples of that. Which, to my mind, is a solid start on #2.

Re: Israel’s N.S.A. Scandal

#126
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You paint too simple a picture. And, if you go back to before the (successful and on-going) attempt to ethnically purge Palestine by European Jewish immigrants, you will see that Jews, and Christians were not persecuted when that land was under Muslim rule. In Israel, only 7% of the land was owned by Jews when the state of Israel was created. The rest was stolen. Homes were stolen at gunpoint. The Israelis repeatedly…

This was propaganda from a karma 9 account. I'll touch some points but I think that there are too many fanatics on this subject, it doesn't work on HN. (I got a couple of comments first upvoted and then down voted a bunch of points, so I guess this will go the same way.) >>In Israel, only 7% of the land was owned by Jews when the state of Israel was created. More Jews were thrown out of the Muslim countries than Pale…

I don't see how you have countered anything that I have said. I think the actions of governments like Egypt's are horrible WRT the Palestinians too, but that was not the point of my post. I was responding to a racist anti-arab rant (that ended up being down-voted by the time I finished composing my response). Hasney Mubarak became an American/Israeli puppet.

As for keeping the Palestinians in refugee camps, the Palestinians have a right of return. The U.N. recognized this right decades ago. The root cause of refugees is Israel's policy of ethnic cleansing (against international law). Look for references to the "red house", to find early plans for this ethnic cleansing dating back to the founding of Israel.

As for land swap, it doesn't work that way, and I'm sure you realize this.

One bullet two kills, was not a "few individuals". And, it was only one of many slogans of the same ilk the Israeli military wore to that slaughter.

Current PM of Israel has not only said things like, "... put Palestinians on a diet." In the context of starving the civilian prisoners in the giant open air prison that is Gaza (illegal collective punishment), but also was instrumental in multiple massacres of Palestinians. How is a speech worse than actual mass murder? Read transcripts of the Knesset (Israeli legislature) to see the attacks on the non-Jewish minority-- including death threats, rape threats, etc. (yes, stated openly in the official meetings).

Started by Hamas is usually a fiction. In almost every case, go back one or two weeks more than the Israeli propaganda, and you will see Israeli aggression, Israel breaking a cease fire, Israel assassinating a politician, Israel killing a fisherman/farmer/child etc. That said, there are no innocents among those active in a battle, but the balance of power, balance of aggression, and balance of casualties is such that Israel carries the vast majority of the blame. The ratio of civilian deaths prove who is the aggressor.

It is unfortunate that Briton essentially wanted a white-ish colony in the Middle East. It is sad that most of Europe were only too happy to be rid of their Jews. It is also terrible how Jews, Romani, disabled, gays, etc. suffered under the Nazis. But, it is not fair that the indigenous Arabs of Palestine suffer for it.

"Copied from the Nazis" hmmmmm... Gaza =~ Warsaw ghetto, Organ harvesting for benefit of Jews, etc. I see your point, but it is probably not the point you meant to make.

As for antisemitism, everything is antisemitism (or self hating) in regards to criticism of Israel. Yet, antisemitism is OK when practiced by an Israeli-- the Arabs subject to oppression and massacres by Israelis _are_ Semitic people.

Israel is an imperialist enterprise, and yes 7% was bought by Jews, I said that in my original post, but the rest was stolen. It is a terrible situation that has only a couple outcomes. Some radical Jews want to see Israel's borders expanded to the biblical boarders to, in their minds, allow the return of the Messiah, some radical Christians want to support those radical Jews in the hopes that WWIII breaks out centered in Israel, in their minds, allowing the return of their Jesus, some radical Muslims want the invaders gone no matter what it takes, and will gladly give their lives (and as many of the invaders as they can take) to this end. Yet, the only solution today would be to make up (including honoring the right of return). It would be hard since the Israelis are essentially the Afrikaners of S. Africa, and worse nearly all the prime land is stolen, and some must be given back to the returning families, but if Israel were to actually become a democracy, and not what is in fact a theocracy (see Israeli laws preferential to Jews), and begin re-integrating refugees, it might be possible to overcome the other obstacles. It seems to me as uncertain as this path is, that any other path will lead to certain destruction-- a stopped up pressure cooker eventually explodes.

Re: Israel’s N.S.A. Scandal

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because this is ultimately a social problem. You're not going to make conflict or oppression obsolete with encryption; even if a tyrrannical government can't get any actionable information out of someone it perceives as an antagonist, it may feel free to abuse or torture people simply to keep the rest of the population in line - by terrorizing some people and catering by proxy to the sadistic instincts of others.Many…

The popular show "24" in its most recent season made the express decision to demonize hackers and glorify the use of drones in combat. I implore you to watch the first episode of the last season, where a masculine Jack Bauer is depicted breaking a pale, radical-looking emo hacker out of an underground torture facility in Britain. Minutes later, Bauer expresses disappointment with the hacker for aiding WikiLeaks. I'd…

Funny, I've been binge watching all seasons recently. It's entertaining and pretty well executed.

And it's so obvious and effective propaganda material (and they made 9(!) seasons of it to keep these brains washed) - produced following "Fox News" guidelines, one would conclude.

The central and repeated message is:

1. Terrorists are everywhere

2. Total surveillance is therefor necessary and must be reinforced, not cut back

3. Torture is not nice, but it mostly works and must therefor be maintained

4. Leaking of classified information is in any case a serious crime that can never be justified

And then, we wonder why approximately 50% of the US population think Snowden is a traitor.

Re: Israel’s N.S.A. Scandal

#128
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, if not fixing it by working within the system, then what is the next step?

Those working within the system should follow Snowden's example, IMHO. Force the government to either stop these practices altogether, or reveal their true cost to the American way of life.

Surveil them back, root out every underhand connection, business, deal, operation that the nsa or its chronies undertake, and put a spotlight on it. Crowdsource it.

Re: Israel’s N.S.A. Scandal

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The popular show "24" in its most recent season made the express decision to demonize hackers and glorify the use of drones in combat. I implore you to watch the first episode of the last season, where a masculine Jack Bauer is depicted breaking a pale, radical-looking emo hacker out of an underground torture facility in Britain. Minutes later, Bauer expresses disappointment with the hacker for aiding WikiLeaks. I'd…

It's a television show.

More than half of American TV shows are produced by the intelligence agency. Hollywood has been a velvet glove for a long time ..

Re: Israel’s N.S.A. Scandal

#130
post #31
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For my fellow uneducated hackers: "a water drop hollows a stone not by force, but by falling often"

I know you're just being cheeky, but I don't believe that "knowing latin" == "educated", same for its corollary.

Knowing Latin may not be identical to having an education. But without Latin, you simply do not have access to over a millennium of pre-Enlightenment written material, which may seriously warp your view of Western culture.
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