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A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job

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Re: A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job

#101

Post by TheAceOfHearts »

philangist wrote: post #63
nogridbag wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you don't have a background in software, I would suggest specializing in the language/framework/utility of the day - something like Angular, React, etc. You will have a leg up on the vast majority of developers (the ones who don't read HN). I work for a small startup in the NYC metro area and of course I agree with the parent post. We have a fairly terrible interviewing process. Candidates are phone screened by…

What's controversial about having a coding problem? I would assume that I'm going to write code for any position I apply to, otherwise I probably wouldn't want to work at that company. Or do the applicants just feel like you're asking an unreasonably difficult question for the amount of time provided?

In HN the general feel I've gotten for interview problems is that people prefer being given a day or two to accomplish a small coding project instead of being given a coding problem on the spot.

I agree with that approach as well, but it's probably because I consider on the spot coding problems to be nerve-wrecking.

Re: A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job

#102

Post by macNchz »

roywiggins wrote: post #61
GuiA wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is why I always use PHP as an introductory language if I have to teach web dev; the setup part is much more straightforward than it is for Rails/Django/etc., and you don't have to spend a ton of time teaching dozens of concepts (MVC, routes, templating, git, unit tests, ORMs, etc.) before the students can have mini web apps written. Some programmers balk at the idea of teaching PHP with plain HTML/CSS instea…

Flask. Flask Flask Flask. It's well-documented, in Python, and you can push it to Heroku easy as pie. You can add things like templates (they're built in, and can be really simple) or just concatenate HTML the old-fashioned way. You can program very imperatively and work up to abstractions. It's very friendly. I haven't seen it used as an introductory "language" but I feel like it would work well.

>you can push it to Heroku easy as pie

Having worked with absolute beginners, this isn't nearly as easy as you think for someone just getting started. You're adding ssh keys, getting set up with git, installing the heroku client, running things from the command line, dealing with dependencies, dealing with heroku config file issues...

These are the things that get extremely frustrating very quickly to someone who doesn't have a technical background, and they cause people to give up.

Compared with: start a shared hosting account for $2/month, connect with a gui FTP client and the password you made during signup, drag and drop files to the server, go to http://www.yourserver.com/foo.php and see if it works.

If it's about learning the most basic fundamentals, PHP just works. It will be some time before these people start building things where security, scale, separation of concerns, version control etc start to count. Introducing too many things at once is frustrating, and the fun starts when you can use the things you're building, and share them with others. There's not much that's better than PHP in that regard.

Re: A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job

#103

Post by Nicholas_C »

MrJagil wrote: post #3

Excellent how this problem is continuously attempted to be solved. As a wannabe programmer, one thing I always lacked from these sites was the ability to somehow see my code live. I.e. it's fun to write html and css on codecademy or python from LPTHW or whatever but how on earth do I get it on the web or assembled into .app? In actuality, the complexity that surrounds DNS providers, server apps (or whatever you call…

I really got bogged down with that crap when learning python as well. I love coding but there was a point when I was launching my apps and there was just one thing after another that was slightly wrong and taking quite a bit of time to Google/find/fix them. That was my main problem with Django. I've since been using flask with PythonAnywhere[0] (I don't work for or have any connection to them other than being a casual user) and it's extremely simple to launch an app compared to alternatives that I've looked at. It makes writing web apps fun because you can focus on coding and not wondering why your templates aren't loading or whatever.

[0]https://www.pythonanywhere.com/

Re: A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job

#104

Post by embwbam »

Last year, I tried something new. One of my friends, a Mathematician, and the smartest guy I know, was working at the library. I told him he should get into programming, and hired him as my "Apprentice".

I was mentoring him directly. He was working right next to me. He was learning a lot, I was enjoying the teaching, but I could also hand him boring stuff (CSS) and he would love to do it. I paid him peanuts ($12/hr) at first, then I got him a job for a company making around $60k after about 8 months.

This is how apprentices used to work: the master (mentor is a better word :) would find the work because of his reputation, would handle the most interesting and difficult work, and the apprentice would do the routine stuff and slowly get more and more competent.

Has anyone else tried this? I think it would be cool to try it at larger scale, with a whole team of skilled senior devs adopting apprentices to help them with their work.

Re: A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job

#105

Post by yen223 »

School-Cotton wrote: post #49
mbubb wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should have a github account if you are learning to program. In my experience interviewers expect it.

I work at a huge company named after a big river in South America. I don't know of anybody in my org that has a GitHub, and maybe like 1/10 of the resumes I see for interview candidates have one. Is this "expectation" a San Francisco thing?

I find that if you're not in Silicon Valley, 50% of the stuff on HN won't matter to you.

Re: A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job

#106

Post by AJ007 »

terryp wrote: post #83

As someone who has taught himself how to program - badly at times - I applaud these kinds of efforts, but I wonder if they're subverting the actual problem. See, companies - I think - need more technology people. And the pool of technology people is limited. The laws of supply and demand say that limited supply and increased demand will drive up the cost. This is great for individuals, but a losing proposition for co…

There are some interesting challenges.

An entry level software developer with bare bones skills could be worth around $4 an hour outsourced? An individual in the first world, to command a large wage at this skill level is either fooling the employer or is strong in other areas: communications, management, design, etc.

With no data to back up my opinions, I feel like the best developers are very sharp to begin with and also highly self-motivated. They don't just take a course, they end up developing the new technologies and teaching others. If you take someone who isn't particular sharp, and has an average level of motivation, what will a coding class do for them? Will they even recall what they did? If they end up with just the bare bones skills you can't hire them because the market wage is illegal in the first world.

On the flip side, things like Code Academy would be great for grade school and high school. When I was 12 or 13 I tried learning C++. Text editor, no color syntax, b&w print book, it was a total flop.

Code Academy would have been great. Hell, even YouTube would have made a world of difference. (Also learning to use complex software like 3DSMax was a joy reading text descriptions of menus, hardly any screenshots let alone video walkthroughs.) I have little sympathy for people who complain while being hand held through learning a skill today -- programming, cooking, whatever. Such a vast library of free information compared to 15 years ago..

Re: A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job

#107

Post by tjbiddle »

embwbam wrote: post #104

Last year, I tried something new. One of my friends, a Mathematician, and the smartest guy I know, was working at the library. I told him he should get into programming, and hired him as my "Apprentice". I was mentoring him directly. He was working right next to me. He was learning a lot, I was enjoying the teaching, but I could also hand him boring stuff (CSS) and he would love to do it. I paid him peanuts ($12/hr)…

This is what a properly managed internship (Or Jr. Developer's first 3-6 months) should look like.

Re: A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job

#108

Post by teach »

GuiA wrote: post #45
MrJagil wrote: post #3

Excellent how this problem is continuously attempted to be solved. As a wannabe programmer, one thing I always lacked from these sites was the ability to somehow see my code live. I.e. it's fun to write html and css on codecademy or python from LPTHW or whatever but how on earth do I get it on the web or assembled into .app? In actuality, the complexity that surrounds DNS providers, server apps (or whatever you call…

And this is why I always use PHP as an introductory language if I have to teach web dev; the setup part is much more straightforward than it is for Rails/Django/etc., and you don't have to spend a ton of time teaching dozens of concepts (MVC, routes, templating, git, unit tests, ORMs, etc.) before the students can have mini web apps written. Some programmers balk at the idea of teaching PHP with plain HTML/CSS instea…

Another teacher with real-world experience teaching ACTUAL, normal students? We're a rare breed.

I agree with everything you wrote, of course. Kids need to learn how to CODE first with simple, non-magical tools. Experience with the other bells and whistles comes later.

Re: A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job

#109

Post by mmcru »

philangist wrote: post #68
yarper wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also took a look at your contributions - looks a bit spotty! https://github.com/mmcru No activity in the last month? Something I personally would pick up on.

C'mon.. No activity in the last month is not a big deal. On my github[1] I have periods where I go for months without committing a single thing, and then I'll have a flurry of activity in the course of a week. People have lives outside of coding and sometimes they go a month or two (or 6) without pushing anything to github, it's not the worst thing in the world. I mean we're looking for quality of contributions here,…

wow, awesome response, thanks for the information. i actually bought two scoops of django for 1.5, only to read that they released an updated version about a week later! i'm not sure how out-of date the 1.5 version is, but i'm going to pick it back up. when i first read it, i felt like some of it went over my head at the time.

definitely going to read up on PEP8. thanks again!

Re: A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job

#110

Post by terryp »

embwbam wrote: post #104

Last year, I tried something new. One of my friends, a Mathematician, and the smartest guy I know, was working at the library. I told him he should get into programming, and hired him as my "Apprentice". I was mentoring him directly. He was working right next to me. He was learning a lot, I was enjoying the teaching, but I could also hand him boring stuff (CSS) and he would love to do it. I paid him peanuts ($12/hr)…

I know that there's some cross-over in the Python/Scientific community with http://software-carpentry.org/ - which is interesting.

I also know that in Chicago 'apprenticeship' is a word that is thrown out there a lot.

http://www.8thlight.com/apprenticeship

https://engineering.groupon.com/2012/software-apprenticeship...

https://www.devmynd.com/jobs/apprenticeship

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