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A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job

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Re: A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job

#61

Post by roywiggins »

GuiA wrote: post #45
MrJagil wrote: post #3

Excellent how this problem is continuously attempted to be solved. As a wannabe programmer, one thing I always lacked from these sites was the ability to somehow see my code live. I.e. it's fun to write html and css on codecademy or python from LPTHW or whatever but how on earth do I get it on the web or assembled into .app? In actuality, the complexity that surrounds DNS providers, server apps (or whatever you call…

And this is why I always use PHP as an introductory language if I have to teach web dev; the setup part is much more straightforward than it is for Rails/Django/etc., and you don't have to spend a ton of time teaching dozens of concepts (MVC, routes, templating, git, unit tests, ORMs, etc.) before the students can have mini web apps written. Some programmers balk at the idea of teaching PHP with plain HTML/CSS instea…

Flask. Flask Flask Flask. It's well-documented, in Python, and you can push it to Heroku easy as pie.

You can add things like templates (they're built in, and can be really simple) or just concatenate HTML the old-fashioned way. You can program very imperatively and work up to abstractions. It's very friendly.

I haven't seen it used as an introductory "language" but I feel like it would work well.

Re: A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job

#62

Post by mikeleeorg »

She admits that the site is a bit lack in the usability department. “It’s hard to tell what it is just by looking at it,” she says. “It’s remarkable to me that people have figured out how to use it.”

This. I love the fact that people have come to use her site despite its usability problems. To me, it shows there's a real need out there.

Admittedly, I also believe having a great UI from the start can be a differentiator (especially in a young market), but products that get used despite a poor UI mean current alternatives were even worse (or non-existent) for these users.

I hope she's able to turn this into something to works out for her.

Re: A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job

#63

Post by philangist »

nogridbag wrote: post #27
mmcru wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

these comments are always discouraging to me. i work in a different field (sysadmin), and i've been struggling to get a job programming. am i that bad at programming? or that bad at finding work? i feel like i know the basics of several languages as well as html, css, sql and git. i wrote an IT-ticket system for a healthcare clinic in python consisting of a basic html form and a SQL database backend (i know this isn'…

Since you don't have a background in software, I would suggest specializing in the language/framework/utility of the day - something like Angular, React, etc. You will have a leg up on the vast majority of developers (the ones who don't read HN). I work for a small startup in the NYC metro area and of course I agree with the parent post. We have a fairly terrible interviewing process. Candidates are phone screened by…

What's controversial about having a coding problem? I would assume that I'm going to write code for any position I apply to, otherwise I probably wouldn't want to work at that company. Or do the applicants just feel like you're asking an unreasonably difficult question for the amount of time provided?

Re: A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job

#64

Post by wyager »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #57
wyager wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also easy to teach programming with BASIC. That doesn't mean it's particularly good for the students. Setting up a web server with e.g. Python's SimpleHTTPServer is absolutely trivial, and teaches them a lot more about what a web server actually does (routing requests and building responses), and also prepares the students to use whatever hip python stuff people are doing servers in these days.

The advantage for typical PHP here is that the webserver runs the programs somewhat transparently rather than the other way around with your program creating the webserver and then managing requests. PHP/Apache provides a very simple routing model that correlates 1:1 with the filesystem.

>PHP/Apache provides a very simple routing model that correlates 1:1 with the filesystem.

Might that give students a false impression of what a webserver does and is capable of doing? The students can implement the same thing themselves in a few lines of python, rather than offload most of the functionality to a monolithic and unapproachable black box like apache or nginx.

Re: A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job

#65

Post by teach »

lutusp wrote: post #30

Article title: "Out in the Open: The Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job" It's a good thing the site's originator didn't make this claim. Even a first-rate site with an enviable effect on students wouldn't want to say this. Maybe there should be a rating system for article titles, one that measures how far the title deviates from the article itself. In many cases such a title hurts the credibility…

I read the headline as semi-ironic. I actually expected it to be an article about how there is (currently) no such site and how bad the vast majority are (mine excepted, of course).

Re: A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job

#66

Post by kefka »

hliyan wrote: post #48

I like the concept, but the very first Javascript problem statement starts this way: Bob is a lackadaisical teenager. In conversation, his responses are very limited. Bob answers 'Sure.' if you ask him a question. He answers 'Woah, chill out!' if you yell at him. He says 'Fine. Be that way!' if you address him without actually saying anything. I'm sure this is my personal biases (and possibly age) showing, but this c…

Woah, chill out!

Re: A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job

#67

Post by vegggdor »

GuiA wrote: post #45
MrJagil wrote: post #3

Excellent how this problem is continuously attempted to be solved. As a wannabe programmer, one thing I always lacked from these sites was the ability to somehow see my code live. I.e. it's fun to write html and css on codecademy or python from LPTHW or whatever but how on earth do I get it on the web or assembled into .app? In actuality, the complexity that surrounds DNS providers, server apps (or whatever you call…

And this is why I always use PHP as an introductory language if I have to teach web dev; the setup part is much more straightforward than it is for Rails/Django/etc., and you don't have to spend a ton of time teaching dozens of concepts (MVC, routes, templating, git, unit tests, ORMs, etc.) before the students can have mini web apps written. Some programmers balk at the idea of teaching PHP with plain HTML/CSS instea…

> Why are we trying to teach programming using all the fancy tools and technologies used in production systems

Wait, either a) PHP isn't a production system, :) or b) you are blaming yourself for using it, or c) ...

Re: A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job

#68

Post by philangist »

yarper wrote: post #29
mmcru wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i do have a github, but i don't think i would call it "good": https://github.com/mmcru?tab=repositories i can definitely improve it, and that is something i have been working on. thanks for the advice though; i really appreciate it. i agree with you that ideally i would be working under some more senior programmers to improve my skills.

I also took a look at your contributions - looks a bit spotty! https://github.com/mmcru No activity in the last month? Something I personally would pick up on.

C'mon.. No activity in the last month is not a big deal. On my github[1] I have periods where I go for months without committing a single thing, and then I'll have a flurry of activity in the course of a week.

People have lives outside of coding and sometimes they go a month or two (or 6) without pushing anything to github, it's not the worst thing in the world. I mean we're looking for quality of contributions here, not quantity, right? To me a bigger 'red flag' would be that all the django code seems to use function based views (not class based views) and doesn't really have any consistent formatting. OP I'd suggest skimming two scoops of django[2] and reading PEP8[3] so that you can get a good idea of how most shops write their code. Either way, I think your projects are mostly great and show that you're actually able to build things.

[1] https://github.com/philangist

[2] http://twoscoopspress.org/products/two-scoops-of-django-1-5

[3] http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/

Re: A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job

#69

Post by JonnieCache »

MrJagil wrote: post #3

Excellent how this problem is continuously attempted to be solved. As a wannabe programmer, one thing I always lacked from these sites was the ability to somehow see my code live. I.e. it's fun to write html and css on codecademy or python from LPTHW or whatever but how on earth do I get it on the web or assembled into .app? In actuality, the complexity that surrounds DNS providers, server apps (or whatever you call…

>In actuality, the complexity that surrounds DNS providers, server apps (or whatever you call filezilla etc), server providers (here i mean heroku, AWS, Cloudflare etc), those weird githubs and repos that people chat about etc etc, is way more deterring than actually learning what a "class" is.

That stuff is 80% of practical software engineering. The other 20% is communicating with other people.

If you want to be good at your job, you've got to put in the hours to learn the stuff that isn't in the books. The same as any other skilled career. If you want to worry about the niceties of programming languages all day, go into academia.

Re: A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job

#70

Post by vegggdor »

wyager wrote: post #53
GuiA wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is why I always use PHP as an introductory language if I have to teach web dev; the setup part is much more straightforward than it is for Rails/Django/etc., and you don't have to spend a ton of time teaching dozens of concepts (MVC, routes, templating, git, unit tests, ORMs, etc.) before the students can have mini web apps written. Some programmers balk at the idea of teaching PHP with plain HTML/CSS instea…

It's also easy to teach programming with BASIC. That doesn't mean it's particularly good for the students. Setting up a web server with e.g. Python's SimpleHTTPServer is absolutely trivial, and teaches them a lot more about what a web server actually does (routing requests and building responses), and also prepares the students to use whatever hip python stuff people are doing servers in these days.

Routing is done by a router, not a server. a server serves. Does that really need to be said?

Edit: to clarify, I read about "routing" in "web-apps" now and then. I have problems figuring out, although it seems to be clear to anyone. And then you come and mess up terms even more, while routing is absolutely not essential to a web-server. Also, if your idea of routing is anywhere near apache's rewrite-rules, I don't wanna know it. If on the other hand routing is essential to an ftp server, I'd be curious.

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