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Depression and feeling like an outsider

blog.jonathan.sh

51–60 of 62 posts

Re: Depression and feeling like an outsider

#51
I am bipolar. Right now I am in a fluctuating depressive episode I am trying with my several drugs to escape without, and this is tricky, without flying into mania. Usually I am on top of this - happily married, good job, good life, haven't been psychotic in many years. Episodes generally minor in depth or elevation, brief, and few and far between.

But right now I am not on point and it's affecting my job, and my perception of how good it is and possibly a major decision I might make under the influence, if you will, of too little or too much serotonin, whether or not to jump ship in pursuit of greener pastures or some strong paranoia that I will be fired or that my team's project will get canned.

I am disengaged, not enjoying it, disengaged socially from my team, I am way behind in my email (work and personal), I ducked out at 2pm today to go lie in bed, I am unsure if I am dissatisfied because I have good reason to be or if my perception is distorted by the depression.

My Zoloft kicked in last week and I felt as though I had the best and most productive two days in a row, following two sick days I felt compelled to take. So another challenge is to figure out whether my suddenly improved impression of my job was distorted by hypomania. Bipolars need to be careful with SSRIs, but a calculated risk for me now.

Bipolar is dangerous to disclose. But I fear I may be testing my boss's patience and disclosure would buy me latitude but I'd only do that concealing that I am struggling with manic depression, rather just garden variety depression. Or with levity, that I have a tummy ache, but in my mind.

I guess I'll try to correct myself medically and keep my mouth shut, and consider having this in my back pocket if I leave early one too many times. Though my boss and team are smart people, and many people have some familiarity with mental illness, so my money's on his already knowing I have a few screws loose. Which might be why he didn't inquire about the nature of my sudden illness, instead being quite accomodating even on my request for second day. I'm grateful for that, though I can't help but read into that.

One thing I envy about gays, in addition to their charisma and fashion sense, is how much less trapped in their closet than I am in mine (or so I suspect). Gays don't have a reputation for going postal. People fear bipolar folks even if they are "high functioning" and treated enough to blend in. I guess I would too in their shoes.

Wow that was long, sorry, but my sudden loquaciousness is a sign I may be escaping my depressive episode in this therapeutic comment box. Thanks, Hacker News! ;)

Re: Depression and feeling like an outsider

#52
post #51

I am bipolar. Right now I am in a fluctuating depressive episode I am trying with my several drugs to escape without, and this is tricky, without flying into mania. Usually I am on top of this - happily married, good job, good life, haven't been psychotic in many years. Episodes generally minor in depth or elevation, brief, and few and far between. But right now I am not on point and it's affecting my job, and my per…

Tianeptine might help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianeptine

Re: Depression and feeling like an outsider

#53
I'm not black. I'm a white male. I have five degrees including a PhD from an Ivy League school, I've been published in nature twice, Harvard Business Review, bla bla bla. All great on paper. But if you meet me in person, you'd never know that. I come across as a person of average intelligence (at best!), and I can tell you that I've always (at least at first) been treated like an outsider in high performing circles. I remember my second year of computer science when we had our first big group assignment, and no one wanted me in their group because they assumed I was a slacker of low average intelligence. Little did they know at the time that I was one of the top programmers in the class. Eventually everyone found out, and you know what, they liked me even more for it. But it's an uphill battle whenever you are different.

That said, I'm not walking in your shoes. Maybe it would be the same, or maybe it would be 10x worse or 100x worse. What may help is two pieces of advice: (1) when you're in high performing circles if you don't talk and act like others in your group they'll assume that you're an outsider. Ironically, humans are simply not smart enough to look beyond the first set of superficial data points before they make a decision and so people react according to their experience. It may not be right, but it is. So if you're entering a foreign group and you WANT to be accepted, then you're going to need to act in a way that is familiar to them. (2) Something I heard once from Indra Nooyi: "Always assume positive intent". That is, sometimes people think negatively about us, and sometimes we read into things. If you think that people have good intentions then try to make the second your null hypothesis. Even if you're wrong you may win some of these people over, and when you're right you may give people important benefit of the doubt.

Re: Depression and feeling like an outsider

#54

Blaming your lack of fitting in on being black, and buying into this bullshit your head is telling you is your real problem. I've felt the exact same way you describe in this post, but instead of "black", insert "short", "ugly", or any number of excuses I can come up with for why I don't fit in, and people don't like me, and it's not fair, and it's everyone else's fault. Bullshit. People aren't friendly to you becaus…

Wow, all this time, all these people that have been suffering, they could have been cured with some positivity. We should probably start telling everyone and put a stop to all that "self-pittying garbage". If only they knew this crazy secret, maybe we wouldn't have lost so many amazing people to suicide.

Yes, "shitty perspective" doesn't help the way people treat you, but that's exactly why depression is so dangerous. It's this inward spiral of worsening and worsening conditions and no matter how "positive" you try to stay, there's no chance of swimming against that current. I mean, did we learn nothing from Robin Williams. Dude was nothing but positive on the outside, while inside he was obviously suffering horribly.

How about instead of blaming Jonathan (or anyone else suffering from depression), you acknowledge the real danger that depression presents. Shit, that's half the problem right there. There's such a large stigma surrounding depression that people are afraid to even try to open up never mind getting treatment. Your comment only proves those inner fears are true, which ironically makes it that much worse.

Lastly, just because someone co-signs your depression, doesn't mean they're feeding in to it or even that they're opinion will even have any affect on it worsening or improving. You know what does make it worse though, ignorant comments on the internet telling you it's all in your head and there's this "one simple hack" to eradicating it.

Re: Depression and feeling like an outsider

#55

I'm not black. I'm a white male. I have five degrees including a PhD from an Ivy League school, I've been published in nature twice, Harvard Business Review, bla bla bla. All great on paper. But if you meet me in person, you'd never know that. I come across as a person of average intelligence (at best!), and I can tell you that I've always (at least at first) been treated like an outsider in high performing circles.…

I see that one of the Nature publications was the endometrial cell transposon work in Nature Genetics - may I enquire as to the other publication?

Re: Depression and feeling like an outsider

#56

I'm not black. I'm a white male. I have five degrees including a PhD from an Ivy League school, I've been published in nature twice, Harvard Business Review, bla bla bla. All great on paper. But if you meet me in person, you'd never know that. I come across as a person of average intelligence (at best!), and I can tell you that I've always (at least at first) been treated like an outsider in high performing circles.…

I see that one of the Nature publications was the endometrial cell transposon work in Nature Genetics - may I enquire as to the other publication?

Survival of The Sparsest, in Nature's Systems Biology.

Re: Depression and feeling like an outsider

#57
post #21

The OP actually has an extraordinary amount of what psychiatrists call "insight" concerning his condition. That is to say, he is not only depressed, but knows he is. It might sound utterly implausible that someone could be clinically depressed and not know it, but I think that's the more common circumstance. People experiencing depression very often can't see that depression is the problem. They think the reason they…

How can you help people who don't realize this and would refuse any suggestion to seek advice? I fear my mother might be struggling with this since she was laid off last year but actively refuses to have conversations about how she might feel. 1/4 of my blame lies in Irish culture however :/

Re: Depression and feeling like an outsider

#58

Blaming your lack of fitting in on being black, and buying into this bullshit your head is telling you is your real problem. I've felt the exact same way you describe in this post, but instead of "black", insert "short", "ugly", or any number of excuses I can come up with for why I don't fit in, and people don't like me, and it's not fair, and it's everyone else's fault. Bullshit. People aren't friendly to you becaus…

Wow, all this time, all these people that have been suffering, they could have been cured with some positivity. We should probably start telling everyone and put a stop to all that "self-pittying garbage". If only they knew this crazy secret, maybe we wouldn't have lost so many amazing people to suicide. Yes, "shitty perspective" doesn't help the way people treat you, but that's exactly why depression is so dangerous…

I'm speaking from the perspective of someone who has actually suffered from severe, crippling depression, and in my experience, the greatest danger is feeding into this fantasy world the depressed mind conjures. My post is acknowledging this "real danger".

I also never claimed there was "one simple hack". As someone who deals with depression on a daily basis, I offered what I think are a few of the most important tactics for keeping it at bay.

I speak from experience, so please don't write off my comment as "ignorant".

Re: Depression and feeling like an outsider

#59
post #2

1. try an antidepressant, keep taking it without changing the dosage. try this for at last one year. 2. when you feel down and you're feeling worse and worse, try going out and walking for at least 15 or 45 min, or find something to do. breathe. don't stay in one place. don't let immobility and routine drown you. if you can do something that can make you move and make memories, you should do it. depression is a brain…

I wholeheartedly agree with 1 and 2, but I'm less enthusiastic about 3 and 4. I can't imagine that you meant it this way, but it can sometimes come across as "you have no valid reason to feel sad," which then makes some people feel badly about feeling badly, and the loop closes in on itself. At least that's where I find myself in trouble sometimes...

You're right, but I like to say that just to to make sure people with depression don't redirect their problems towards something else, like politics or people.

I used to blame many things for my problems, including me. I kept thinking about that "positive" mentality, for a long time. It can start to make sense at one point or another. If you're depressed, I think it's important to have a minimum of knowledge about questions on the meaning of life or something like that. If it can make you think in a healthy way and prevent people to turn into stupid things, I don't think it's really insignificant.

Good life philosophy can help you make better choices. I'm not talking about religion, I'm just talking in general, how do you look at the world.

I agree that philosophy won't really help, but it would be stupid to just not talk about it a little.

Re: Depression and feeling like an outsider

#60
post #16
post #2

1. try an antidepressant, keep taking it without changing the dosage. try this for at last one year. 2. when you feel down and you're feeling worse and worse, try going out and walking for at least 15 or 45 min, or find something to do. breathe. don't stay in one place. don't let immobility and routine drown you. if you can do something that can make you move and make memories, you should do it. depression is a brain…

This is good advice, but I think it's more helpful (and less dangerous) to share personal experience than give blanket advice. "These things worked for me," is more useful than "These things will work for you."

I agree, but people have really difference experiences with depression. Personality can be a big factor.

I'm just trying to narrow down to easy remedies that actually work in terms of mental health.

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