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Depression and feeling like an outsider

blog.jonathan.sh

21–30 of 62 posts

Re: Depression and feeling like an outsider

#21
The OP actually has an extraordinary amount of what psychiatrists call "insight" concerning his condition. That is to say, he is not only depressed, but knows he is.

It might sound utterly implausible that someone could be clinically depressed and not know it, but I think that's the more common circumstance. People experiencing depression very often can't see that depression is the problem. They think the reason they feel worthless is because they're worthless; the reason they're listless is because they're lazy; the reason they don't want to be around people (when they normally would) is because people don't like them.

So to be able to put a name to this -- to say, "Wait. This isn't right. None of this is normal" is huge step forward. Same goes for mania (which can make you feel euphoric or angry and irritable).

Some never get to the point of realizing that there's something wrong and it's not their fault (any more than having asthma would be their fault). And some of those people die from this potentially deadly illness.

Re: Depression and feeling like an outsider

#22
People that become programmers have a tendency to have very poor interpersonal skills. Some of us gravitate to programming because it lets us limit our amount of human contact, for others it gives us something to feel superior about.

I can't claim to fully understand what the author is feeling but I can empathize. I am an average looking white guy and I also feel like a complete outsider.

I guess I've mostly given up on fitting in at this point. I rather be alone than feel the anxiety of trying to fit in with a group. I want people to be happy, healthy, and successful... just at a distance.

Re: Depression and feeling like an outsider

#23
I feel like I can relate very well to your situation. I dropped out of school in Canada when I was 20 to move to San Francisco and start making iPhone apps. I was also addressing my sexuality for the first time. I remember feeling like I showed up to a party I wasn't invited to. I had a pretty tumultuous upbringing filled with abuse and impoverishment. When I moved to SF, everyone I talked to seem to be a straight white dude with a degree from Berkley, Stanford, MIT, or somewhere else along those lines. I fell into a very deep hole of depression and had zero friends for a while. To this day I still feel like an outsider if I let myself.

A lot of my depression was the result of my own learned cognitive behaviors from growing up. Going into therapy and starting antidepressants helped a bit. Things really started to change when I got into Zen meditation and started to become aware of my own thought processes and preconceptions. At the end of the day, you can convince yourself of anything if you want to. We spend a good deal of our time telling ourselves the same stories over and over again to build up our ego identity. I can feel like a total outsider if I fixate on the past and what separates me. I can also feel perfectly content and at home if I let that go and focus on what's happening now and what I can do now. If you didn't belong where you are, you probably wouldn't be there.

I highly recommend building an awareness of your thoughts and pausing when you catch yourself reinforcing your perception of being an outsider. The more you fixate on being an outsider; the more you'll feel like an outsider; the more you'll act like an outsider; the more people will address you like an outsider.

Hope this helps.

Re: Depression and feeling like an outsider

#24
You are fully right that a good relationship is what makes you feel you exist and that life is worth it. Sometime you are lucky and find excellent relationship partners and sometimes it's so so.

There is something you wrote in your text that caught my attention. What do you mean by feeling exploding inside ? Is this like a strong tension inside ? Like the opposite of depression ? Could it be a light form of bipolarity ?

Re: Depression and feeling like an outsider

#25
Here's a trick that has sometimes helped pull me out of ruts:

Once a day, find three new things to be grateful for or about.

These things don't need to be anything monumental -- the idea is to force yourself to search.

I'll admit that at first, this can feel self-condescending or humiliating -- but bear in mind this is between you and yourself. Treat it like a game; try approaching it tactically. After a few days of trying it, it seemed to work for me. Some studies have found that keeping a journal[1] enhances the effect.

This shouldn't be confused with incessant "positive thinking" (which is generally bad advice[2]). The key difference is that you're not suppressing negative thoughts or trying to "drown them out" with positive ones; it's merely a brief, daily exercise.

Of course, this obviously isn't a cure-all for depression; just another tool for your toolbox. You should seriously consider therapy if you haven't tried it yet.

[1] http://lesswrong.com/lw/i0c/for_happiness_keep_a_gratitude_j...

[2] http://www.forbes.com/sites/janbruce/2013/11/19/how-positive...

Re: Depression and feeling like an outsider

#26
The post is ostensibly about depression and race, but this quote really stuck out for me, "All this happened simply because, for once, I felt that there was someone who didn’t treat me the same way everyone else did." Who hasn't longed to feel that same connection? I've always loved the outsideriness of hacker culture and I hope we don't lose it. What potential would we unlock if we embraced our differences instead of policing the border?

Re: Depression and feeling like an outsider

#27
post #12

Sorry to hear about your situation. If it helps, I can relate somewhat, as a founder who has struggled with depression at times. I wish I had some magic incantation to give you to help, but unfortunately I don't. I can say this though: 1. If you ever just need somebody to talk to, feel free to give me a shout. 2. Fish-oil is widely considered to be an effective over-the-counter / natural supplement that helps with de…

I'd be cautious recommending Nietzche to the depressed.

or the fountainhead to anyone

Re: Depression and feeling like an outsider

#29
post #2

1. try an antidepressant, keep taking it without changing the dosage. try this for at last one year. 2. when you feel down and you're feeling worse and worse, try going out and walking for at least 15 or 45 min, or find something to do. breathe. don't stay in one place. don't let immobility and routine drown you. if you can do something that can make you move and make memories, you should do it. depression is a brain…

For anyone reading this who is prescribed an antidepressants (SSRIs especially, given that they're mentioned by other commenters), please remember that taking them is just the first step in a process you have to be open about with your doctor. Finding the right medication and the proper dosage for you isn't necessarily going to happen at once--there's often a process of trial and error at work. Some can start having an effect within a few days, others might take weeks. And others (SNRIs like Effexor/venlafaxine, for example) are entirely dose-dependent, where the mechanism of action differs radically.

A good doctor will help you manage this, but it's less about finding the perfect medication and more about finding the best balance between benefits and potential side effects. Just don't let yourself get caught up in the notion that the grass is always greener on the other side.

Re: Depression and feeling like an outsider

#30
I have mild depression, and one of the best treatments I have found is martial arts. Physical activity in general is helpful, but martial arts in particular has a very calming effect. Most people assume it has something to do with pounding the crap out of a punching bag, but it is more than that. There is a big emphasis on overcoming your limits, and this has a very positive effect on self-esteem.

It also teaches you how to look inward at your own flaws. In martial arts, if you can't do a technique, there are no teammates to blame. It's on you to persevere and keep trying until you get it right. But you don't want to hurt your training partner, so you have to stay calm and focused no matter how frustrating it gets. And when you do get it, it feels amazing. That confidence and calmness carries over into other areas of your life, and you feel like a million bucks.

A few other students in my class told me that it had a similar effect on them. To be clear, it won't replace proper medical treatment, especially for severe depression. But I highly recommend it as an additional form of treatment.

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