What social functions do hedge funds provide, indeed? Renaissance Technologies avoided $6bn in taxes by using derivatives to pretend their ultra-high frequency trading profits were actually long-term capital gains. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-21/renaissance-avoided... Renaissance is one of the biggest and most successful hedge funds of all time. SAC was another of the most successful hedge funds of all time…
You're conflating 'social' with 'moral'. Everything you mentioned is morally questionable, not socially harmful.
What are hedge funds, and what social functions do they serve?
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Re: What are hedge funds, and what social functions do they serve?
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
Long-Term Capital Management's bailout was organized by the Fed even though it didn't actually take on the assets. If the private bailout hadn't been agreed to, then the Fed would have directly intervened. I say this to correct the record, not to detract from your point about risk management, which is true.
And it is not whether an organsiation is a bank or a hedge fund that determines if it is bailed out - it is the expected social cost of it's collapse that determines it - hence LTCM was bailed out, because the smart money thought it would take us all with it and why Lehmens was not (mistakenly?)
Re: What are hedge funds, and what social functions do they serve?
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're conflating 'social' with 'moral'. Everything you mentioned is morally questionable, not socially harmful.
Most moral wrongs are also social wrongs. Laws and regulations exist for the good of society, and flouting those laws is bad for the public good. If you pay less in taxes than you ought to, that means that the average citizen either pays more in taxes or doesn't get the social services those taxes would have paid for. Insider trading means that the insiders profit at the expense of the outsiders, who are typically fa…
No, it means SOMEONE is paying more. That someone could be a rich person, another company, or a smorgasbord of other taxpayers. You can't assume it's Joe the Plumber who's paying more taxes (on average, because proportionally, corporations and rich people pay most taxes).
Also, don't assume those taxes would have paid for social services. They could have also been used to kill innocent women and children in unspeakably nasty ways (on average, most of the budget does NOT actually go to social services).
The vast majority of trading is done by institutions, so here again, your assumption that Joe the Plumber gets hurt by the big bad hedge funds doing insider trading is faulty. Yes, 401(k)s might get hit, but it's not your average E*TRADE daytrader who's losing out (again, on average, based on trading volume).
Anyway, in the name of morality, it's irrelevant to speculate WHO pays for your wrongdoing and for WHAT your taxes would have been used.
The action is immoral and illegal. To say it's socially wrong is a big stretch. There are way too many unknowns to make a definitive statement.
Re: What are hedge funds, and what social functions do they serve?
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
There was no dishonest or misleading tactic that Renaissance tech used. They held on to options and used that legal tax structure. Options for a basket of stocks and the basket of stocks themselves are completely different things and have different risks and payouts. That they are using derivatives to avoid taxes is just drama that politicians are inventing.
So what is the social function of Renaissance not paying $6B in taxes? How does this benefit society?
Re: What are hedge funds, and what social functions do they serve?
#75What social functions do hedge funds provide, indeed? Renaissance Technologies avoided $6bn in taxes by using derivatives to pretend their ultra-high frequency trading profits were actually long-term capital gains. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-21/renaissance-avoided... Renaissance is one of the biggest and most successful hedge funds of all time. SAC was another of the most successful hedge funds of all time…
If it's useless then why does it make them money? Capitalism is a bit like a genetic algorithm - it will find a badly specified reward function faster than it will find the solution you were looking for - but if our tax policies encourage businesses to take on dangerous levels of debt, maybe we should, like, change our tax policies?
> So - to deliver middling average returns, the hedge fund industry will charge 4x to 20x the cost of an index fund.
Shouldn't we be happy about that? They take a load of rich people's money, provide liquidity to the market and do other price discovery things, and give those rich people a middling average return. What's not to like?
> Much of the money for the funds comes from public pension funds.
Maybe those pension funds should stop investing in hedge funds, like calpers just did.
Re: What are hedge funds, and what social functions do they serve?
#76Many hedge funds aim to have better risk-adjusted returns by some metric (say, Sortino ratio or Sharpe ratio) than the major stock indexes or other asset class benchmarks, or the traditional advice of a balanced portfolio of equity index funds and bonds. They often consciously sacrifice some expected returns in exchange for reduced downside volatility.
Some hedge funds try to provide as good returns as possible while having as low correlation as possible to the major asset classes available outside the fund (equities, bonds, commodities, real estate, etc.). These sorts of funds expect their investors to have major holdings in equities, bonds, commodities, real estate, etc. outside the fund. These sorts of funds view themselves as an extra option for diversification for individuals who are already well diversified in the major asset classes.
Some funds (mostly short-only funds) aim to be anti-correlated to some asset class (typically equities) as cheaply as possible, so that holdings in the asset class combined with holdings in the fund result in better risk-adjusted returns (say, Sortino ratio or Sharpe ratio) than just holding major index funds along with some out-of-the-money long-dated puts on those indexes. Many of these sorts of funds expect to have several years of small losses, punctuated by large gains in years when their investors' other holdings have major losses.
In short, I'm sure there are plenty of just plain poor funds out there. However, depending on the investor's utility function and holdings outside of the hedge fund, it may be rational for the investor to have holdings in a hedge fund even if that fund consistently under-performs the S&P 500 and MSCI World Index.
Re: What are hedge funds, and what social functions do they serve?
#77If you're interested in reading some more about the collapse of LTCM, I recommend When Genius Failed by Roger Lowenstein (for a fuller appreciation, read Liar's Poker by Michael Lewis first). If you're interested in reading an excellent account of a startup HFT/hedge fund, it's worth ordering a secondhand copy of The Predictors by Thomas Bass (for a fuller appreciation, read Chaos by James Gleick first).
Re: What are hedge funds, and what social functions do they serve?
#78> How did a few asset managers earn more money in a single year than Pierpont Morgan did in his whole life? Ummm, no they don't. $1 in 1913 is around $24 in today's dollars[ http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=1&year1=1913&ye... ]. So JPM's net worth today would be $36 billion making him the 12th richest person person in the world [ http://www.bloomberg.com/billionaires/2014-09-19/aaa ].
Re: What are hedge funds, and what social functions do they serve?
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
Good point. Although, I'd argue that more often than not, institutions (pension funds, funds of funds, etc.) are the ones investing in hedge funds rather than individuals. Usually there is a pretty high minimum investment (and needing to know the right people) that you won't be able to meet, unless you are a very high net worth individual. For example (ps this was a pretty big deal last week), CALPERs the largest U.S…
1% not 10%. CALPERS only allocated about $4B out of $300B to hedge funds.