Live data from Hacker News

Money Is Pouring into Tech Like It’s 1999, and That's Not Good

wired.com

11–20 of 64 posts

Re: Money Is Pouring into Tech Like It’s 1999, and That's Not Good

#12
I've discussed this at length with investors, entrepreneurs, and upper level management at large tech service agencies, and I'm not convinced that there is necessarily a bubble this time around. Accounting for the massive increase in bandwidth, CPU, GPU, smartphone ownership, software development practices, AI logic, and reliance on data compared to that of 1999, it's really a flawed model to draw 1:1 parallels in my opinion.

While there will be a shift at some point away from software/web entities and into manufacturing (to catch up meatspace to webspace), it will be these tech entities that will largely lead the charge, to enhance their own offerings. The example put forth in the article is as flawed as the logic it purports to criticize: "SAYING WE’RE NOT IN A BUBBLE BECAUSE IT’S NOT AS HIGH AS 1999 IS LIKE SAYING THAT KIM-JONG-UN IS NOT EVIL BECAUSE HE’S NOT HITLER."

Compared to 1999, the value drawn from these companies inside the "bubble" doesn't even remotely exist within the same qualitative and associative parameters.

Re: Money Is Pouring into Tech Like It’s 1999, and That's Not Good

#13
I have a hard time even reading any of these pieces where a VC is complaining about high burn rates / valuations all while continuing to invest.

"Because my competition will continue to invest" is not a good reason.

You don't see Warren Buffet investing at valuations he believes are untenable, just because the market happens to be up.

Re: Money Is Pouring into Tech Like It’s 1999, and That's Not Good

#14

I have a hard time even reading any of these pieces where a VC is complaining about high burn rates / valuations all while continuing to invest. "Because my competition will continue to invest" is not a good reason. You don't see Warren Buffet investing at valuations he believes are untenable, just because the market happens to be up.

That's what happens when you're an investment manager. You're paid to do something, anything. If you just sit on cash, your investors aren't going to keep paying your fees.

Re: Money Is Pouring into Tech Like It’s 1999, and That's Not Good

#15

Looking strictly at numbers in this situation is a bit like forgetting to account the inflation difference between 1800 and 2014. Of course the amount of money being invested in tech has grown enormously; in 1999 everyone didn't walk around with the internet in their pocket.

And now everyone is walking around with the internet in their pocket, yet revenue seems elusive to a lot of very highly-valued companies.

Lack of potential users is no longer an excuse, but we're still throwing billions at companies with no revenue model, and billions at companies with a revenue model but unable to get cashflow positive to save their lives.

Re: Money Is Pouring into Tech Like It’s 1999, and That's Not Good

#16
post #7

An interesting twist in the current incarnation is this story is how big "private" money is taking risks on the tech sector. Overall, I don't really find this story convincing for a few of reasons, though I suppose there is plenty of room for disagreement. (1)T he first boom actually did get a lot right. The PC-internet revolutions was intense and did create a lot of new value. The mistake was treating it like a land…

Even small start ups should continue to do ok -- the hardware overhead for early stage stuff now is so cheap it is nearly free. Models that require huge scale before the revenue comes in could be a problem.

I self-funded so my opinion is likely wrong, but it seems like a lot of the excess money is going to questionable things in addition to paid growth (no clue how much Uber, Lyft, and others are spending, Groupon certainly took the paid acquisition to the extreme buying up huge chunks of available online inventory.) Luxurious offices are nice but hardly necessary for a serious coder or designer.

Perhaps the most vulnerable are the start ups that already exist and are dependent on investor money to operate. In the event of a market pull back desperate companies should be easy pickings for the big boys to acquire talent and other interesting goodies.

Leverage -- that makes bubbles very dangerous and unpredictable. Investor leverage is one thing, companies' own leverage is quite another. Last I looked (a year ago), tech was the best of the best by this metric. For public companies in other sectors, its a wonder if they would be worth anything in another major credit crunch. The corporations we keep hearing about having massive cash stock piles have liabilities to match. A concern would be Facebook's or Apple's market cap dropping 50%+ . Go to 0? No.

Re: Money Is Pouring into Tech Like It’s 1999, and That's Not Good

#19
post #3

Theory: Wallstreet has limited other domestic outlets for their investment money since the 2008 crash, and is therefore investing heavily in tech. This will continue until either 1) more sectors of the economy recover present new and/or better investment opportunities or 2) a crash occurs. However, in the case of #2, which everyone fears, unless the conditions change and wall street gets a new location to place their…

The question here is over what timescale would you expect to see the new climb? Isn't what you're really describing is just boom and bust which is pretty much business as usual, but you seem to be implying that it might just recover faster.

But if that's true (I can sort of see the logic - essentially that Wall St won't learn it's lesson for which there is some evidence) doesn't it also follow that the next bust would just come faster? If the crash is really just what happens when the valuations defy reality then if the money comes rushing back faster, wouldn't that just come about again faster?

Re: Money Is Pouring into Tech Like It’s 1999, and That's Not Good

#20
post #7

An interesting twist in the current incarnation is this story is how big "private" money is taking risks on the tech sector. Overall, I don't really find this story convincing for a few of reasons, though I suppose there is plenty of room for disagreement. (1)T he first boom actually did get a lot right. The PC-internet revolutions was intense and did create a lot of new value. The mistake was treating it like a land…

I think point (4) is the key here. The original bubble happened on the public exchanges with public money. The "IPO" was the big deal that everyone wanted to get in on after Netscape, et al valuations went crazy. Institutional investors were investing people's retirement accounts into companies they didn't understand. When that finally fell over, the impact was felt across the economy because it involved everybody's money.

This time the money is largely coming from private equity and there's not a lot of splashy IPOs happening. The people who are investing aren't mom and pop planning for their retirement. If a big VC firm looses it's shirt it's not as likely to have the impact on "Main Street" as we saw the last time around.

I'd like to say that I don't care one whit if a bunch of rich people suddenly loose their money, but if history has anything to show, it's that they'll somehow figure out a way to make the rest of us feel the pain too.

Post reply on HN