Ads work by cultural imprinting, not emotional inception • Hacker News Board

Re: Ads work by cultural imprinting, not emotional inception

#41

Post by smsm42 » Sun, Sep 21, 2014, 7:37 AM UTC

GuiA wrote: post #29

XorNot wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thinking advertising annoys you doesn't mean it doesn't influence you. In fact it probably influences you more then you think - you dwell on it. You think why it annoys you. But at the end of the day "buy Coca-Cola!" was still the last message in your head and you probably spent more time thinking about it. There was a McDonalds ad on the radio a while back which had a combination of, not unpleasant but slightly anno…

Precisely - advertising, especially for larger brands, is just as much about getting you to buy stuff as it is about awareness. For example, next time you're on a road trip and you have a choice between mcdonalds and a lesser known chain and you are hungry, you'll be more likely to go to the familiar McDonald's. Or you might even tell your friends about how much you don't like McDonald's ads, but in the process you j…

Isn't that exactly what the article said in its Drano example? If McD wanted to say "guys, we have new breakfast menu", they succeeded. Being remembered for years though is useless for that purpose. If they had to do it in annoying form that may have to do more with justifying ads budgets or seeking artistical fulfillment on the side of the ad makers than with its effectiveness.

Brand recognition is definitely important but I don't think there's anybody in US past the age of 6 that doesn't know what McDonalds is. Well, maybe excluding Amish, but even that not sure. So all that theory "you told you friends about McDonalds" sounds nonsensical - I doubt there is somebody on HN who didn't know what McDonalds is and if there is, this information is probably useless for him as he doesn't have any McDonalds around him anyway and he never traveled anywhere where McDonalds is (because otherwise he'd already know about it). Of course, there's a marginal case of a traveler from a remote rainforest village coming into US for the first time and immediately visiting McDonalds basing on his past HN experience, but come on - does it really happen often enough for McD marketing to spend any time thinking about it?

Re: Ads work by cultural imprinting, not emotional inception

#42

Post by salmonellaeater » Sun, Sep 21, 2014, 7:38 AM UTC

chrismcb wrote: post #30

salmonellaeater wrote: post #25

There's an excellent book called Rational Ritual[1][2][3] which develops this idea much more fully. The thesis is that common knowledge (I know something, and I know everyone else knows it too ) is very powerful and rationally drives people's behavior. One of the arguments in the book revolves around the absurd pricing of advertising during big public events like the Super Bowl. If advertisers weren't concerned about…

I would imagine the cost per viewer for a Super Bowl commercial isn't that high. Super Bowl commercials are expensive because there are so many viewers. In addition to the extra press surrounding them.

Super Bowl ads cost about the same per viewer as prime-time TV slots ($35 per thousand in 2014). Both cost about four times as much per viewer as daytime TV.

Primetime: http://www.tvb.org/trends/4718/4715

Daytime: http://www.tvb.org/trends/4718/4710

Re: Ads work by cultural imprinting, not emotional inception

#43

Post by smsm42 » Sun, Sep 21, 2014, 7:39 AM UTC

bowlofpetunias wrote: post #23

tedks wrote: post #16

Oh man. That's a doozy. Well, uh. >We may not conform to a model of perfect economic behavior, but neither are we puppets at the mercy of every Tom, Dick, and Harry with a billboard. We aren't that easily manipulated. Yeah. Yeah we are. It looks like the author of this is just some random engineer without a lot of backround in marketing or persuasion psychology. That's a shame because he's clearly interested in it an…

So how come this doesn't work for me? I am not influenced by advertising in the least. I find it all equally annoying. I'm not being pretentious, but when I look at the stuff I buy (and I'm as materialistic as the next person, slightly obsessed with 'design', and attached to a brand like Apple), none of it I've seen in ads. Advertising uniformly has the effect of pissing me off and can even turn me off brands. And I'…

The irony of a person being "attached to a brand like Apple" and claiming he is not influenced by advertising is so rich it's hard to take it all in one setting. I may have to ask for a takeout box to take some home with me.

Re: Ads work by cultural imprinting, not emotional inception

#44

Post by smsm42 » Sun, Sep 21, 2014, 7:53 AM UTC

I've seen a lot of ads, for example, for household cleaning products (dishwashers, detergents, sponges, soaps, etc.) which are not social at all - they actually even more a-social than bedsheets, your house guests may happen to notice your bedsheets but would rarely know which soap you use to wash your dishes or windows. So while it sounds very persuasive for some products, one may easily poke holes in the concept applied universally.

Re: Ads work by cultural imprinting, not emotional inception

#45

Post by icebraining » Sun, Sep 21, 2014, 8:09 AM UTC

comex wrote: post #6

Maybe I'm just less aware of what other people do than others, but I find this fundamentally unconvincing (the argument that this explains most of what's usually considered emotional inception, not the existence of the phenomenon in some cases). > Beer, soft drinks, gum, every kind of food (think backyard barbecues). Restaurants, coffee shops, airlines. Cars, computers, clothing. Music, movies, and TV shows (think ab…

Bed sheets - sheets themselves may not be the hottest product category, but I've seen many mattress and mattress store commercials. Tempur-pedic, Sleepy's (I have heard that jingle so many times I doubt I will ever forget it), etc.

Yes, but at least around here, mattress ads actually try to convince you about the quality of their products, by talking about the technology and showing how work. I've never seen an ad that was just a person sleeping peacefully, Corona-style.

Nobody notices what brand of sneakers you're wearing... at least, I rarely even look down that far, and I can't believe other people are that different.

Really? Do you know many teenagers? I don't look at them either, but I can tell you that both my sixteen-years-old brother and most of his friends definitely do.

Re: Ads work by cultural imprinting, not emotional inception

#46

Post by DanBC » Sun, Sep 21, 2014, 8:21 AM UTC

gabemart wrote: post #37

tedks wrote: post #16

Oh man. That's a doozy. Well, uh. >We may not conform to a model of perfect economic behavior, but neither are we puppets at the mercy of every Tom, Dick, and Harry with a billboard. We aren't that easily manipulated. Yeah. Yeah we are. It looks like the author of this is just some random engineer without a lot of backround in marketing or persuasion psychology. That's a shame because he's clearly interested in it an…

> sorry, saying 4/5 doctors recommend X is not a rational cue to buy X If we assume for a moment that 4/5 doctors really do recommend X, and that X is something related to one's health, why is it not a rational cue to buy X?

Doctors are human and are subject to the same cognitive biases as everyone else.

What you want is a bunch of statisticians looking at the research and patient outcomes.

Re: Ads work by cultural imprinting, not emotional inception

#47

Post by Htsthbjig » Sun, Sep 21, 2014, 8:25 AM UTC

"So if a theory (like emotional inception) says that something as flat and passive as an ad can have such a strong effect on our behavior, we should hold that theory to a pretty high burden of proof."

When I was adolescent I went to a(my first) music concert, it was an incredible experience, I even met my first girlfriend there. I was surprised that it was Coca Cola everywhere.

For me this was freedom(from my home environment), adventure, joy, friendship, and even sex.

Way more than pixels on the screen.

Today is not Coca Cola. I do B.A.S.E jumping, love going downhill with my bike and when I go to see or meet the Gods of the trail or Skydiving doing incredible things(them,not me) I see REDBULL EVERYWHERE in the events they participate.

Pixels on the screen are probably not that good, but they affect millions at the same time.

Lots of people watch porn, even when it is just "pixels on the screen".

A significant part of the advertising industry do not use pixels at all, they use text, they are called "copywriters" and what they do is tell stories.

Re: Ads work by cultural imprinting, not emotional inception

#48

Post by DanBC » Sun, Sep 21, 2014, 8:44 AM UTC

> It suggests that human preferences can be changed with nothing more than a few arbitrary images.

"You're never alone with a Strand" seems like a reasonable counter.

> Q: Have you ever seen an ad for bed sheets? Can you even name a brand of bed sheet? If ads work by emotional inception, wouldn't you expect to have seen at least a few ads trying to incept you with the idea that Brand X bed sheets are going to brighten your day?

Yes, I do see ads for bed sheets and for bed sheet makers. The author is just looking in the wrong places.

Re: Ads work by cultural imprinting, not emotional inception

#49

Post by GuiA » Sun, Sep 21, 2014, 9:05 AM UTC

smsm42 wrote: post #41

GuiA wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Precisely - advertising, especially for larger brands, is just as much about getting you to buy stuff as it is about awareness. For example, next time you're on a road trip and you have a choice between mcdonalds and a lesser known chain and you are hungry, you'll be more likely to go to the familiar McDonald's. Or you might even tell your friends about how much you don't like McDonald's ads, but in the process you j…

Isn't that exactly what the article said in its Drano example? If McD wanted to say "guys, we have new breakfast menu", they succeeded. Being remembered for years though is useless for that purpose. If they had to do it in annoying form that may have to do more with justifying ads budgets or seeking artistical fulfillment on the side of the ad makers than with its effectiveness. Brand recognition is definitely import…

Knowing something and hearing about it many times a week are two very different things. Why do you think product placement exists in shows/movies/sports/etc? Everybody knows what Nike is.

Re: Ads work by cultural imprinting, not emotional inception

#50

Post by scribu » Sun, Sep 21, 2014, 9:05 AM UTC

smsm42 wrote: post #44

I've seen a lot of ads, for example, for household cleaning products (dishwashers, detergents, sponges, soaps, etc.) which are not social at all - they actually even more a-social than bedsheets, your house guests may happen to notice your bedsheets but would rarely know which soap you use to wash your dishes or windows. So while it sounds very persuasive for some products, one may easily poke holes in the concept ap…

As the author mentioned at the beginning of the article, ads for household cleaning products work by making promises (if you use X toothpaste, your breath will smell fresher for 24 hours), instead of creating cultural signals (Beyonce drinks Pepsi).