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“The Mess We're In” by Joe Armstrong at Strange Loop [video]

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Re: “The Mess We're In” by Joe Armstrong at Strange Loop [video]

#21

Post by jacquesm »

readerrrr wrote: post #4

Wow this guy doesn't know what he is talking about. Just a bunch of numbers without any arguments. I had to stop watching when a laptop was compared to a black hole. I'm sure the laymen are impressed though.

Your bio bit says:

> Please comment if you downvote. Or even better; just comment.

So here you go: you are utterly clueless, before you write comments like these do your homework or you will get downvoted a lot.

Or even better; just don't comment. Until you've done your homework, that is. It just increases the noise and does not add to the conversation at all.

Re: “The Mess We're In” by Joe Armstrong at Strange Loop [video]

#22

Post by habitue »

So, while in general I've enjoyed other things Joe Armstrong has written, I think this talk is pretty discombobulated and doesn't have a coherent narrative.

Here are some of the problems Joe posed:

  - bugs in software like Open Office, Keynote, grunt
  - code not being commented
  - computers booting slowly
  - computers using too much energy
  - code being written for efficiency rather than readability
He talks about distributed hash tables at the end. An interesting topic, definitely cool, but they have nothing to do with the problems he posed earlier.

This seems more like a disconnected list of gripes, plus a completely unrelated list of things he currently finds neat to think about. Which is totally fine, but I don't think it makes a particularly great talk.

Re: “The Mess We're In” by Joe Armstrong at Strange Loop [video]

#23

Post by jacquesm »

habitue wrote: post #22

So, while in general I've enjoyed other things Joe Armstrong has written, I think this talk is pretty discombobulated and doesn't have a coherent narrative. Here are some of the problems Joe posed: - bugs in software like Open Office, Keynote, grunt - code not being commented - computers booting slowly - computers using too much energy - code being written for efficiency rather than readability He talks about distrib…

I think it goes with the title of the talk. 'The Mess we're in' is not limited to any one of those items in particular but a total view when you add all of those up. Bugs, badly documented code, slow boot, energy consumption and hard to understand code all contribute to the mess we're in. And it's far from an exhaustive list.

Re: “The Mess We're In” by Joe Armstrong at Strange Loop [video]

#24

Post by pjmlp »

adamnemecek wrote: post #15
p1mrx wrote: post #14

During the last minute of the talk, he says: "Computers are becoming a big environmental threat. They're using more energy than air traffic." Is this actually true? Sure, the average person spends a lot more time on a computer than in a plane, but still it seems crazy that they'd be comparable. Or at least the comparison isn't very relevant, because the Internet can significantly reduce people's need to travel.

"Save the environment, code in C."

"Save the environment. Make black hat hackers, anti-virus tool vendors jobless. Code in Ada."

Re: “The Mess We're In” by Joe Armstrong at Strange Loop [video]

#25

Post by pjmlp »

adamnemecek wrote: post #19
corysama wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are getting downvotes, but energy efficient computation has been a large driver in the recent upsurge in interest in C++.

Wait C++ is has been getting more popular? I'm not complaining (I mostly like C++), I guess I just didn't get the memo.

Lets see.

- Symbiam was coded in C++

- GCC moved to C++

- Clang and LLVM are done in C++

- Mac OS X drivers are written in Embedded C++ subset

- Windows team is moving the kernel code to be C++ compilable

- JPL is moving to C++

- AAA game studios have dropped C around PS3/XBox 360 timeframe

- It is the only common language available in all major mobile OS SDKs

Re: “The Mess We're In” by Joe Armstrong at Strange Loop [video]

#26

Post by pjmlp »

jacquesm wrote: post #23
habitue wrote: post #22

So, while in general I've enjoyed other things Joe Armstrong has written, I think this talk is pretty discombobulated and doesn't have a coherent narrative. Here are some of the problems Joe posed: - bugs in software like Open Office, Keynote, grunt - code not being commented - computers booting slowly - computers using too much energy - code being written for efficiency rather than readability He talks about distrib…

I think it goes with the title of the talk. 'The Mess we're in' is not limited to any one of those items in particular but a total view when you add all of those up. Bugs, badly documented code, slow boot, energy consumption and hard to understand code all contribute to the mess we're in. And it's far from an exhaustive list.

Many of those would be fixed if there was a real concern for quality with corresponding responsibility when things go wrong.

Re: “The Mess We're In” by Joe Armstrong at Strange Loop [video]

#27

Post by jacquesm »

pjmlp wrote: post #26
jacquesm wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it goes with the title of the talk. 'The Mess we're in' is not limited to any one of those items in particular but a total view when you add all of those up. Bugs, badly documented code, slow boot, energy consumption and hard to understand code all contribute to the mess we're in. And it's far from an exhaustive list.

Many of those would be fixed if there was a real concern for quality with corresponding responsibility when things go wrong.

I think the bigger issue is the existence of 'disclaimers'. Software production is the only branch of industry that I'm aware of that is capable of getting out from under manufacturing defect claims in that we state categorically (as an industry) that we have no responsibility, liability or even obligation to fix in case we ship a defective product. That really needs to change.

Re: “The Mess We're In” by Joe Armstrong at Strange Loop [video]

#28

Post by RickHull »

jacquesm wrote: post #27
pjmlp wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of those would be fixed if there was a real concern for quality with corresponding responsibility when things go wrong.

I think the bigger issue is the existence of 'disclaimers'. Software production is the only branch of industry that I'm aware of that is capable of getting out from under manufacturing defect claims in that we state categorically (as an industry) that we have no responsibility, liability or even obligation to fix in case we ship a defective product. That really needs to change.

Disclaiming liability and such is an important F/OSS norm. Of course, proprietary software will improve on this (only) if forced to by competition. The omnipresence of EULAs is a much bigger problem, though. I think the F/OSS norms are better all around.

Re: “The Mess We're In” by Joe Armstrong at Strange Loop [video]

#30

Post by lomnakkus »

grondilu wrote: post #29

I totally agree with the "abolish names and places". Why can't I just write: $ cp hash:// . and have my computer do whatever it takes to retrieve a file with this hash and copy it on my disk?

How would you remember the hash? I guess one could have some sort of directory-like system for mapping human-memorable names to hashes...
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