Same as you OP, except about 4.8 years less.
Ask HN: What has been your experience with self-taught engineers?
21–30 of 44 posts
Re: Ask HN: What has been your experience with self-taught engineers?
#22All good engineers are self taught... to a degree.
That doesn't mean they don't hold advanced degrees in whatever, but great engineers IMO are the types who whether they spend their 20th birthday in a dorm or on the job, have been interested/passionate/doing something in engineering since before they even knew to call it engineering.
YMMV, but I've never met a great software (or mechanical) engineer that wasn't into it before school COULD have happened, regardless of whether they went.
Re: Ask HN: What has been your experience with self-taught engineers?
#23Dammit they keep on learning things!
Re: Ask HN: What has been your experience with self-taught engineers?
#24The distinction/dichotomy is over-blown. It may be that most people you work with have CS degrees, but that doesn't mean most people you work with aren't self-taught.
That's because most self-taught programmers end up with degrees -- either in CS or other fields. All of the good programmers I know had substantial personal projects and/or open source contributions before starting college, and continued throughout college.
The answer also depends on what problems you'd like to work on and where you'd like to work.
Re: Ask HN: What has been your experience with self-taught engineers?
#25Others have mentioned similar but here is my advice. As a self taught engineer what goes on my CV are roles with responsibilities , then specific accomplishements and values I delivered in those roles. That's it. Apply for roles that will give you more experience and responsibilities. Consider you prior experience and CV evidence you are up to the task. Exude confidence in this. Have fun.
Re: Ask HN: What has been your experience with self-taught engineers?
#26My experience has varied wildly with person to person (disclaimer: I am self taught).
In my limited experience there exists a spectrum of programmers in the self-taught category. On the extreme left you have people whose sole experience with programming is just getting the damn computer to do what they want with as little effort as possible: copy and paste some code that seems like it fixes the problem, run it, and tweak as necessary. On the far right you have people who fell into programming as kids and took to it like a moth to a flame. Without any prompting they taught themselves assemblers for the various CPU architectures they came across, learned about cellular automata and dove into artificial chemistry, and could debate the finer points between normal and applicative orders. They've probably toyed with developing their own language using operational semantics or devoured texts on geometry and linear algebra at the breakfast table. Most of us, fortunately, sit somewhere in the middle.
I don't relish having to look for work as I am now. In my experience it comes down to a handful of scenarios:
1. You're sitting across the table from someone who is at least 10 years younger than you and has landed a senior role fresh out of school. AFAIK they'll self-select towards people their own age that look like them... and have similar life-experiences. You might not want to lead with your self-taught badge and down-play it if you can. Don't hide it though: you never know who you may come across and if you have the experience to back you up you can be a very strong contender.
2. HR drone at Big Co. is staring at your resume to figure out who you are. You're candidate X out of 5 they have to interview today and 28 they will sift through this week. They're also simultaneous scanning for keywords and will likely ask you where your education experience is located on your CV. You can't do anything but be candid. Hopefully you can knock the socks off of the developers in the next few rounds of interviews and exploit the poor communication channels between HR and staff. Unless the bureaucracy rules the roost: then you're just not in the right place.
3. You come recommended by someone you know who works at the company you're applying to. You just have to get through the interview. Play up your self-taughtness. It's really an advantage.
My rule of thumb is to wear my badge on my chest. I just have to ace the technical interview (which is the hardest part for me... my typing speed shrinks to nothing under pressure from a smooth 56-60wpm). What's the worst that could happen?
Re: Ask HN: What has been your experience with self-taught engineers?
#27I would suggest not focusing on it either way. Just focus on the projects you have built, the technology you used, and your skills in delivering.
Thats what I've been doing. My resume lists the dozens of projects I've completed. Out of every 50 resume's I send out, I get maybe one interview. I don't think anyone even looks at my github. As soon as they see I don't have a degree, they throw my resume out.
I've done both technical and non technical interviewing and screening and here's what I've picked up. You probably already know all this, but these are the biggest mistakes I've witnessed...
Try to hit the key words, keep it simple but professional, and keep it crawlable -- don't stray too far from the traditional resume unless it's part of a strategy. this means don't send me a markdown file, or anything in a plain text document, don't make it look like a Google search (it really happened, looked awful and conveyed no useful info) and if the reader cannot immediately pick up on your history in under 10 seconds you've already been screened out..
Send a pdf, so you have better control on presentation, or at worst a .doc file.
This all sounds superficial, but getting hired is a game that has to be played.
Re: Ask HN: What has been your experience with self-taught engineers?
#28My experience has varied wildly with person to person ( disclaimer: I am self taught ). In my limited experience there exists a spectrum of programmers in the self-taught category. On the extreme left you have people whose sole experience with programming is just getting the damn computer to do what they want with as little effort as possible: copy and paste some code that seems like it fixes the problem, run it, and…
I would contend that the variability is about equal to a formally educated candidate.
Re: Ask HN: What has been your experience with self-taught engineers?
#29I find that self-taught people have a bias towards self-taught. They see it as a reflection of passion, because that's someone who took their own initiative to learn.
I see it differently, for two reasons:
1. The best programmers I've ever worked with (directly, and also the best programmers in the company) were NOT self-taught. They did CS undergrad, possibly MS, and (rarely) PhD. So I simply observe a strong correlation.
2. To me, if you chose another degree for your undergrad, then that's a signal that you were NOT most passionate about computers at that age. Film school, art school, poli sci... you either liked those fields more than computers, or were stronger in those areas. Fantastic. But I could not imagine myself having chosen any degree except CS, having programmed since a wee lad.
Now, I've met and worked with plenty of self-taught awesomes, including with non-CS degrees, or without any undergrad at all.
For me, degree isn't a must-have on a resume. But I like the signal.
Re: Ask HN: What has been your experience with self-taught engineers?
#30So let me add a couple of data points.
I've spent a lot of time experimenting with hiring pipelines and have found 0 correlation between education and good development hires. That is, when I did double blind experimental data collection, educational certification is noise.
That said, when I talk to the developers I know that I consider "great" who don't have CS education, they have a nearly 100% rate of regret, in at least wishing they had the experience of a CS education. There are things that are easier to learn in an academic setting than in any other setting.
So, the short answer is I would highlight your professional experience, but would not hide your lack of education.
The longer answer is, if you are getting into a resume/web form search cycle you are probably doing it wrong. Your best bet is for personal recommendations. If after 5 years in the industry you do not have colleagues that can sherpa you into a job that you are interested in, education is not your problem. Either you have neglected your professional network, or your abilities are lower than you think. In either case, changing your educational status will not help.