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Girls Get Better Grades Than Boys

theatlantic.com

61–70 of 71 posts

Re: Girls Get Better Grades Than Boys

#61
Well, the article is beginning to understand!

Some recently reported research (I apologize for lack of a reference) explains that already in the crib girls are paying attention to people and boys, to things.

Then what the OP is describing about differences in K through the early grades is essentially just that the girls are more interested in people, e.g., pleasing the teachers, and the boys are more interested in the material, at least if it has to do with things, which in those grades it mostly doesn't.

In particular, of course the girls are much better behaved in class: From the crib, the girls are much better socially than the boys, and that means girls do better in groups, e.g., the social behavior in a classroom.

Next, in those early grades, the girls have much better verbal aptitude so do better at reading and writing, learning languages, etc.

Next, by paying more attention to people, girls have much better understanding of people in the fictional reading that is common and, thus, do better in that reading. Also the girls have much better understanding of emotions and, thus, better understand the emotional content of fictional readings. Also, as in D. Tannen, the girls are much more active in talking with their friends, i.e., their girlfriends, with gossip, and, thus, get still better at understanding people and social situations, including what is in the fictional readings, the classroom social dynamics, etc.

The OP also claimed that the girls are better at "math", but here I start to question. Sure, for math in K-8 or so, the girls are much better because they have much better clerical accuracy and much better handwriting (better at getting the columns of digits lined up important for accuracy). And, again the girls are better at and more interested in pleasing the teachers.

And, with some teaching and grading styles, the girls might be able to seem better at math through grade 12 or so. It can continue to be a really big advantage to be really good at sensing how to please the teachers, and girls are better at that.

But my experience in math (and I was a math major in college and my Ph.D. is in applied math), really, for much of anything like real math, the girls are a big step down. Somehow they don't get it; here maybe the main problem is lack of interest due to cultural stereotypes that girls are not supposed to concentrate on STEM subjects.

Last I heard, on the math SATs, the boys still do much better than the girls and, yes, on the verbal SATs the girls do better than the boys.

Then for the girls/women along come marriage and babies, and then on average their ability to compete with boys/men in most of more important work fades.

Re: Girls Get Better Grades Than Boys

#62

I find this incredibly sexist. To say that girls worker harder than boys offends me greatly. These studies are never accurate and somewhat biased, and I think work ethic is something that can't be averaged out like this. I don't doubt a lot of girls out there do work harder than boys, but making statements like: " Girls succeed over boys in school because they are more apt to plan ahead, set academic goals, and put e…

> If this study were truth, why are there just as many male academics as there are female?

My guess is that the study focused mostly on K-8 or K-12 maybe with some college. In contrast, you are talking about what happens in the world of work. There the boys/men can be plenty serious, hard working, aggressive, bright, ambitious, good at planning, etc.

From all I've seen, for high end technical work, especially research, in STEM fields, the men totally and effortlessly blow away nearly all the women.

In my experience, in grades 1-8, the teachers treated me like dirt. Thank goodness for social promotion! But in math, from grade 9 through high school, college, graduate school, work, to the present, I totally effortlessly blow away nearly every female I've come across. It's like the females are from a different planet. In other ways, the females totally, effortlessly blow me away.

Or, from E. Fromm, "Men and women deserve equal respect as persons but are not the same.". From all I can see, this is true.

Re: Girls Get Better Grades Than Boys

#63
post #55
post #26

This article brings up an important point about our education system. How much is it about teaching a subject versus teaching you how to work. I always did well on tests and in any class I didn't totally hate I felt like I gained the knowledge I needed to. However, I never did all the homework. Hated it. Most of it felt like busy work, or just plain unimportant. Not that I think self-discipline is worthless. It is a…

The whole point about forcing kids to do homework is that they are not in a position to judge whether something is important or not. For everyone like you, I'm pretty sure there is someone saying "I didn't want to learn X in school but I'm sure happy they made me now that I know how important it is."

That wasn't really my point. If you don't want to learn something, you probably aren't going to. But even classes I enjoyed like Math and Science, I wouldn't do all the homework. I still learned all that I needed to. The fact is that a lot of homework just isn't necessary all the time, especially for quick learners.

Re: Girls Get Better Grades Than Boys

#64
post #54

Well we can always console the boys by telling them they'll get paid more once they get a job.

Men work more overtime than women. Men work more hours than women. Men work more dangerous jobs than women. Men work in more physically demanding jobs than women. Men are more likely to move for a job than women. Men are less likely to take career breaks than women.

You think maybe that might have something to do with it?

Re: Girls Get Better Grades Than Boys

#65

I recently did an analysis of Harvard and MIT's MOOCs to determine which gender gets the better grades in classes. (full post: http://minimaxir.com/2014/07/online-class-charts/ ) Turns out, there's no statistically significant difference between male and female grades. http://minimaxir.com/img/online-class-charts/gender-grade.pn...

> 311,534 male students (73.3%) and

> 113,571 female students (26.7%).

> The fact that it’s not even close to 50:50 is surprising.

It didn't surprise me, I went there & searched for it. How can it be surprising (you see these ppl all the time on campus!). And it shows that there are ~3 times more men at Harvard than woman.

So thank YOU so much for nearing to a problem: Girls do better early on (cf. orig. article) & men later in live (cf. your analysis)

Why did you screw that? Political correctness? You are dishonest (you'd have my downvote).

An important aspect: We need to make sure to not loose males [which would do fine later] during early years.

Re: Girls Get Better Grades Than Boys

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Becoming an acceptably rewarded cubicle drone requires obeying a lot of arbitrary rules for many years. I wouldn't say life is about that. School sucks and boys feel that more acutely, is the long and short of it in my view. Girls tend to tolerate or even like it because subservience is more in their nature. Women also tend to like moderate status corporate drone jobs that make a lot of men want to blow their brains…

Dude, Subservience is forced, has been forced, due to biology, until the very recent past. Women could not even control having children until birth control. No one likes "corporate drone" jobs. No one likes being a servant or a slave either. Sometimes you take what you can get at the time just to survive.

But this doesn't answer the question why now, in this day and age, girls are (in average) more subservient than boys (EDIT: according to this article) (obviously, they don't need to be in order to survive).

Re: Girls Get Better Grades Than Boys

#67
post #45
post #31

So much of school is based on blindly doing what you're told and I think young boys have trouble doing what they're told. I know I personally wanted to know the reasoning behind things. In the army they have to break young men down before they blindly follow orders. Even as a nearly 30 something I don't like being told what to do. Ask, don't tell. I know I could see this was pointless charade and would rather do some…

I read somewhere (forgotten the book title sorry, I'll try and get back to you on that!) that our patriarchal society's gender roles (and thus the games children play at a young age to educate them about these) differ for men and women in terms of how they relate to people: For men, competition is emphasised, meaning that independence and dominance is the prime goal, while for women, connection and bonding is the ove…

> our patriarchal society's

Sorry to be anal about it, but (assuming you're from a Western country) the society is anything but patriarchal.

"Patriarchy is a social system in which males [...] occupy roles of political leadership, moral authority and control of property, and where fathers hold authority over women and children"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarchy

Re: Girls Get Better Grades Than Boys

#68

   She’s found that little ones who are destined to do well in
   a typical 21st century kindergarten class are those who 
   manifest good self-regulation.
The first question is what determines "doing well"? This was not clear to me from the article. Is it grades? High-School completion? Entrance exam levels? Completing University? Getting a PhD? Making their first billion $?

For a very long time (40+ years) we know that girls have done better in grades and boys have done better in standardised admission tests. The quality of "good self-regulation" others may describe negatively as a false reward for "girls keep quiet". In open format classes boys dominate and demand attention. Teachers may be rewarding girls "self-regulation" because they are more considerate of the teacher and fellow students. But as a result teachers give more attention to the students that are worse at "self-regulation". see: "Failing At Fairness: How Our Schools Cheat Girls" from 1995

   Kenney-Benson and some fellow academics provide evidence 
   that the stress many girls experience in test situations can
   artificially lower their performance, giving a false reading
   of their true abilities.
The Kenney-Benson study I believe is this one from 2006: http://news.illinois.edu/news/06/0220mathdivide.html

This field of study appears to me to be a mess.

Here is a study on the male grade crisis with a counter conclusion. Pretty much the similar research results but different conclusion and language:

   The researchers examined 369 samples from 308 studies,
   reflecting grades of 538,710 boys and 595,332 girls. ... The
   study reveals that recent claims of a “boy crisis,” with boys
   lagging behind girls in school achievement, are not accurate
   because girls’ grades have been consistently higher than boys’
   across several decades with no significant changes in recent
   years, the authors wrote. 
   
   http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2014/04/girls-grades.aspx

Re: Girls Get Better Grades Than Boys

#69

I recently did an analysis of Harvard and MIT's MOOCs to determine which gender gets the better grades in classes. (full post: http://minimaxir.com/2014/07/online-class-charts/ ) Turns out, there's no statistically significant difference between male and female grades. http://minimaxir.com/img/online-class-charts/gender-grade.pn...

> 311,534 male students (73.3%) and > 113,571 female students (26.7%). > The fact that it’s not even close to 50:50 is surprising. It didn't surprise me, I went there & searched for it. How can it be surprising (you see these ppl all the time on campus!). And it shows that there are ~3 times more men at Harvard than woman. So thank YOU so much for nearing to a problem: Girls do better early on (cf. orig. article) & m…

...the article is about online courses.

Re: Girls Get Better Grades Than Boys

#70
post #54

Well we can always console the boys by telling them they'll get paid more once they get a job.

Men work more overtime than women. Men work more hours than women. Men work more dangerous jobs than women. Men work in more physically demanding jobs than women. Men are more likely to move for a job than women. Men are less likely to take career breaks than women. You think maybe that might have something to do with it?

I'm not sure what that has to do with my statement.
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