Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Quit my job. Company coming after me

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 46 posts

Re: Ask HN: Quit my job. Company coming after me

#31

Post by ChuckMcM »

These things happen and it sounds like the company is being jerks about it. Your offer letter will cover the conditions under which you have to return the signing bonus. It may or may not be pro-rated but usually if you quit you do have to give it back. And yes, you have to return the whole amount, when you file your tax return you will get back the withheld taxes in your refund as the bonus will no longer be part of your compensation on your W2.

The whole black listing / smearing thing is mostly just talk. Given that they are that smarmy, others will know that about them as well. Having the 'award' will certainly put the question of who has the sour grapes out there. And hey it has given you some manager types you don't want to work for again. It is always an option of the company to walk you out the door once you decide to move on, that is more common when the company is worried about how your leaving will impact others, but I know of at least one company where it is standard policy.

The only risk of talking to a lawyer here is that they will get all excited and try to get you to take some action. Generally you have to ask, what is it you want? To complain? put a comment up on Glassdoor and move on. A lot cheaper than paying an attorney.

Re: Ask HN: Quit my job. Company coming after me

#32

Post by jotux »

loumf wrote: post #7

IANAL, and this is my 2 cents. Get a good labor lawyer. 1. Did your sign-on bonus state that you had to stay a certain time to keep it. If not, don't give it back. They are hostile (and have already taken hostile actions) and haven't earned consideration. Any payment from you should come with them signing an onerous agreement. 2. If you have to give it back by contractual obligation, then pay the whole amount. You ge…

>They are within their rights not to give you a good recommendation.

In California, when it comes to past employee recommendations, employers are protected if a statements are based on "credible evidence and made without malice." So yes they can give a bad recommendation but if it's bad just because they're upset it could be considered defamation.

Re: Ask HN: Quit my job. Company coming after me

#33

Post by fsloth »

mattgreenrocks wrote: post #21
morfizm wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RE your questions there's one thing I know: non-compete are not enforceable in California. Relax and join a different medical startup if you want. (I am not a lawyer, so get one to confirm, or get listen to another 10 random folks :)) Unsure about remaining questions: 1) can you do anything to prevent your defamation among recruiters and/or make them pay for it, 2) sign-in bonus tax issues. But my point was that as f…

> In startups there's expectation that you give all of it, not just 40-45 hours. Funny how "living the dream" requires subjugating one's own autonomy.

I would like to correct the above into "In some companies, startup or not, there's expectation that..." I worked for four years in a startup environment and normal workweek was always sufficient. Of course, I made sure this was the situation before I signed up. Making sure the company culture fits your philosophy of life before signing up is always good (if the economic situation is such that there are plausible alternatives). Becoming hired is not a cost free transaction but incurs severe opportunity costs for the near future. Not getting hired can incur acute fiscal costs on the other. But I would claim the nature of ones employment is not about subjugating ones autonomy unless the employee lets it. Of course, debt and mortgage balances the odds in the favor of the employer more often than not.

Please, telling bright young people that working ones ass of for the benefit of the employer is the only path to a good life is a severe deficit of clear thinking. Some people enjoy doing lots of work for the work's sake and it's a totally fine way to live ones life - but it's not the only good and admirable way available. I'm not saying any other way is better, just that there are usually options available to clever people how to organize ones life.

Re: Ask HN: Quit my job. Company coming after me

#36

Post by hga »

Here's something very specific for the lawyer you'll be retaining to do: contact the company's lawyer and point out how stupid they're being, so the latter will tell them how very foolish they're being, but that's OK, he'll just make more money if they don't stop and get sued....

Re: Ask HN: Quit my job. Company coming after me

#37

Post by dragonwriter »

FireBeyond wrote: post #30
alain94040 wrote: post #24

1. I usually advise people to talk to a lawyer, but in your situation, nothing has happened yet. The company hasn't actually done anything that should concern you. 2. Follow the letter of whatever deal you had for your sign-on bonus. If your contract says you have to return it, do so. If it says it is pro-rated, do so. Don't invent new rules. If the contract doesn't say anything about returning it, don't. 3. Just mak…

r.e. point 1 - apparently the company has (proactively?) contacted recruiters to advise them that this person is unreliable, i.e. quit without notice (regardless of the fact that even if so, they were perfectly within their rights to do so).

> r.e. point 1 - apparently the company has (proactively?) contacted recruiters to advise them that this person is unreliable, i.e. quit without notice (regardless of the fact that even if so, they were perfectly within their rights to do so).

Which, given that the OP had provided notice to your manager, and left immediately only because directed to by the company's HR manager, would seem to be damaging information concerning the OP's usual employment that was false and that the company knew, or reasonably should have known, was false -- i.e., quite likely actionable slander.

So, good reason to talk to a lawyer, especially if the OP believes the company's activities are likely to escalate if not constrained.

Re: Ask HN: Quit my job. Company coming after me

#38

Post by notduncansmith »

ufmace wrote: post #27
morfizm wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RE your questions there's one thing I know: non-compete are not enforceable in California. Relax and join a different medical startup if you want. (I am not a lawyer, so get one to confirm, or get listen to another 10 random folks :)) Unsure about remaining questions: 1) can you do anything to prevent your defamation among recruiters and/or make them pay for it, 2) sign-in bonus tax issues. But my point was that as f…

As an employee, I have an expectation that my standard salary pays for roughly 40-45 hours a week of work. If these startups are looking to hire and expecting to have all of my free time and energy, they better be giving me something for it.

> they better be giving me something for it.

Didn't anyone tell you? Free potato chips!

Re: Ask HN: Quit my job. Company coming after me

#40

Post by morfizm »

ufmace wrote: post #27
morfizm wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RE your questions there's one thing I know: non-compete are not enforceable in California. Relax and join a different medical startup if you want. (I am not a lawyer, so get one to confirm, or get listen to another 10 random folks :)) Unsure about remaining questions: 1) can you do anything to prevent your defamation among recruiters and/or make them pay for it, 2) sign-in bonus tax issues. But my point was that as f…

As an employee, I have an expectation that my standard salary pays for roughly 40-45 hours a week of work. If these startups are looking to hire and expecting to have all of my free time and energy, they better be giving me something for it.

I don't think joining a startup is a very economical decision as opposed to joining a big company. Startups usually give stock options enough for some equivalent of early retirement after 5 years if there's a successful exit, but the chance is low. Last time I tried to do calc on expected income, corporations were winning.

From my friends I know only one person who went to startup with the idea to (hopefully) make good money after careful risk/reward evaluation. Most people go to a startup for non-material reasons - like do more things with your own hands, more lively/friendly environment, different learning opportunities, flexbility to change roles, etc, etc.

RE working weeks. I haven't worked in a startup myself, but friends told me that generally there's an expectation of hardwork and long hours.

The important part - an expectation of long hours doesn't mean they will necessarily fire someone who works 8 hours per day, but it means you'll likely get medium rewards and medium respect from peers if you used to be top performer in a larger company. Which may be fine.

The fact that the author quit due to long hours after he got performance award indicates a potential for flexibility: e.g. maybe he could work less, say no to some requests or fail on some deadlines, and not get award, but still be good enough to not get fired and get interesting projects.

Post reply on HN