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Tramadol Is Not a Natural Product After All

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Re: Tramadol Is Not a Natural Product After All

#91
post #2

Wait, let me make sure I am understanding this. So Tramadol was given to cattle in such large amounts that it made it into the soil and enough got soaked up by trees that it was thought that Tramadol came from those trees. That is just incredible.

Can't help but be reminded of the Wikipedia circular citation phenomenon - http://xkcd.com/978/

Re: Tramadol Is Not a Natural Product After All

#92
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen are natural. But this arrangement of the atoms does not occur unless humans want it to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramadol

Eh. If you leave hydrogen alone for long enough, it will turn into tramadol.

Yes, but you'll need a lot of it. Even a full universe sample takes almost 20 billion years to synthesize a relatively small amount.

Re: Tramadol Is Not a Natural Product After All

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crude oil is [primarily] organic if your context is [petro]chemistry. It's not an organic foodstuff however. Shock, horror, words have contexts which cause them to mean different things. Why is it that you don't wish people to know where their food has come from and how it has been produced. What is the problem with that for you? If you don't care that your children's food is saturated with growth hormones, fungicide…

Can't speak for the GP, but in my case, I object to laws requiring labels on GMO, etc. foodstuffs simply because I don't want to live in California, where literally everything has one or more dire warning labels attached to it. When everything is dangerous, nothing is. The labels end up not being taken seriously, and the consumer ends up less-informed than they otherwise would have been.

"Literally" applies, by the way, when the whole building you're in has a sign in the lobby that reads "This building contains substances known to the State of California to cause cancer, birth defects, and itchy rashes."

I'm worried that this is where the slippery slope of GMO labeling will lead.

Re: Tramadol Is Not a Natural Product After All

#94
post #84
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once enough is coming up through grassblades then farmers can cease giving it to the cattle directly. The holy grail of Unlimited Tramadol!

Drugs company hates him! now seriously, where do one find such abundance of opiates to feed cows of?!

I'm not sure if you're joking, but opiates are grown from opium poppy plants, so that would be a good place to start if you actually wanted an abundance to feed to animals. Tramadol, however, is an opioid, which is a term that encompasses both opiates and synthetic opiate-like drugs -- of which Tramadol falls in the latter.

Re: Tramadol Is Not a Natural Product After All

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you mind linking to the thread? I know it's been removed, but I'm curious which subreddit that happened in. Also, did anyone ever explain why he was shadowbanned? Only Reddit admins can shadowban someone, and I thought they only issued bans for vote manipulation, not for causing controversy.

> Only Reddit admins can shadowban someone I'm a mod of a default subreddit. We can't shadowban people from the entire site, but we can use AutoModerator to moderate comments and shadowban users in a specific subreddit based on certain criteria (e.g. one day old account with negative comment karma or if account mentions certain keywords) or by manually adding a user to a shadowban list. This is separate from reddit's…

I don't mod a default, but in my experience it's historically been really easy to get someone shadowbanned for self-promotion by submitting to r/spam. I don't know if it's run by a script or just overworked interns, but anyone technically breaking the 20% rule over any period of time has tended to get the axe without consideration of mitigating factors (celebrity, posting to subs that encourage self-promotion, etc).

I don't know if that's changing with the drama over r/gamedeals company reps being repeatedly shadowbanned for trolls submitting them to r/spam, but not optimistic.

Re: Tramadol Is Not a Natural Product After All

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't sound like they're trying to get high, per se, just work harder without feeling it. A "recreational" dose would probably interfere with getting work done.

Not necessarily. Opioids, like other euphoriants, are somewhat "stimulating" (mentally) in small doses. I know they aren't just "trying to get high". The problem is that in order to get any psychotropic effects from Tramadol, the dose is so high that a lot of other really nasty effects will come with it. A 5mg dose of hydrocodone would accomplish the effect they are after with very little negative physical effects. I…

Wouldn't Tramadol be classified as a psychotropic just by virtue of it inhibiting your central nervous system?

As someone who takes Tramadol for pain, it does have an odd effect when I'm tired: I find I become less tired, as if the Tramadol is making me ignore my fatigue. Oxycodone, on the other hand, causes me to be more drowsy. This might be what the farmers are talking about.

Re: Tramadol Is Not a Natural Product After All

#97
post #24
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still, there is something nice about a chemical appearing in nature. Gives evidence that it doesn't do batshit crazy things to life.

Have you heard of the very natural Oxygen Catastrophe[1] that wiped out much of the life on Earth? Some organisms began dumping a toxic chemical (oxygen) into the atmosphere in such large quantities that it practically killed off everyone except for those weird mutants that evolved to actually breathe that dangerous toxin synthesized by the killers! [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxygenation_Event

Right. Oxygen was very bad for life when it appeared. Oxygen is good for life now, that evolved in its wake. I don't want massive quantities of stuff appearing that is bad for life now.

Re: Tramadol Is Not a Natural Product After All

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crude oil is [primarily] organic if your context is [petro]chemistry. It's not an organic foodstuff however. Shock, horror, words have contexts which cause them to mean different things. Why is it that you don't wish people to know where their food has come from and how it has been produced. What is the problem with that for you? If you don't care that your children's food is saturated with growth hormones, fungicide…

Can't speak for the GP, but in my case, I object to laws requiring labels on GMO, etc. foodstuffs simply because I don't want to live in California, where literally everything has one or more dire warning labels attached to it. When everything is dangerous, nothing is. The labels end up not being taken seriously, and the consumer ends up less-informed than they otherwise would have been.

So the solution is to label nothing, and actively mislabel everything? That doesn't sound right.

https://www.google.com/search?q=john+oliver+food+labels

Re: Tramadol Is Not a Natural Product After All

#99
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this is the same Tramadol that is incredibly addictive and kills people if they taper off too quickly? Why wouldn't you want some hoops for this? I was prescribed it after I broke a leg in judo. I was shocked when I looked it up and found forums rife with addicts in great distress.

It's not as addictive as other opiates. It is physically addictive though, yes. Opiate withdrawals don't kill you, although you'll want to die; Tramadol has a weird secondary set of effects that act like an SSRI/anti-depressant, so you get both the opiate withdrawal symptoms as well as SSRI discontinuation syndrome symptoms which is a very unpleasant combination. It's a decent painkiller, but like any opiate based pa…

I think I read about seizures from cold turkey which required a 35 week long tapering schedule to avoid. Checking for a source I don't find this mentioned in official side-effects, only less formal guidance for addicts. Strange.

Re: Tramadol Is Not a Natural Product After All

#100
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't speak for the GP, but in my case, I object to laws requiring labels on GMO, etc. foodstuffs simply because I don't want to live in California, where literally everything has one or more dire warning labels attached to it. When everything is dangerous, nothing is. The labels end up not being taken seriously, and the consumer ends up less-informed than they otherwise would have been.

So the solution is to label nothing , and actively mislabel everything? That doesn't sound right. https://www.google.com/search?q=john+oliver+food+labels

No, you label things when there is scientific evidence, of the peer-reviewed and -reproduced kind, that there is a non-obvious risk associated with a given foodstuff or other item. GMO labeling falls well short of that standard.
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