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Launching Today: Mathematica Online

blog.wolfram.com

11–20 of 52 posts

Re: Launching Today: Mathematica Online

#11
post #8
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you come from a programming background, just treat it as a Lisp with M-expressions rather than S-expressions. It all comes together quite quickly then. At it's core Mathematica is actually a rule rewriting engine. but except for more heavyweight uses you can view it as simply a Lisp with the worlds best standard library.

it's a great language, once you get past the fact that writing code in the notebook is a horrible experience. You get a great lisp, along with pattern matching and rule replacement. I can recommend the book by Paul Welling, as well as the books by Michael Trott (very meandering). Just funking things up in the notebook is the most fun I've been having in a long time. You just get sucked into trying more and more thing…

I disagree, I think the notebook is one of the best interfaces I've ever found. Just not for "traditional programming".

The notebook is a literate programming document. It contains my thoughts and process for creating an algorithm/piece of code along with tests and examples. This is very, very different from how people traditionally "program".

However, Mathematica has some very real, very strong deficiencies if you wanted to build an application end-to-end within it. It's dynamically typed, with everything-is-a-list mentality. So you will get type errors.

Unit testing (let alone combinator libraries like quick check) are only available at the higher price levels.

Warning personal opinions ahead!! Wolfram employees often have have strange views on how software is built outside of Wolfram Inc. Unit tests are alien, and type checking or datatypes (Say, to make sure that order your fancy Mathematica based trading system is going to make is sane) are seen as only things dumb rails programmers need. Rather than tools to make developers more powerful.

I would honestly recommend every programmer learn Mathematica. I'm sure they'll find that they can aim far higher when they have the right tools behind them. It's the same distance again from Python/Ruby as Python/Ruby are from C. Probably more.

Re: Launching Today: Mathematica Online

#12
> We're sorry, the server encountered a problem and could not process your request.

is all I get. Is it working for anyone else?

edit: sometimes a reload shows it for a second, then it says "session expiring" and the error page shows up again

Re: Launching Today: Mathematica Online

#13
post #8
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you come from a programming background, just treat it as a Lisp with M-expressions rather than S-expressions. It all comes together quite quickly then. At it's core Mathematica is actually a rule rewriting engine. but except for more heavyweight uses you can view it as simply a Lisp with the worlds best standard library.

it's a great language, once you get past the fact that writing code in the notebook is a horrible experience. You get a great lisp, along with pattern matching and rule replacement. I can recommend the book by Paul Welling, as well as the books by Michael Trott (very meandering). Just funking things up in the notebook is the most fun I've been having in a long time. You just get sucked into trying more and more thing…

The notebook is excellent for its intended domain, which is scientific exploration. It is very good to be able to create definitions and change data, having the results immediately visible. Notebooks can also be saved in its current state and exported to other formats.

Re: Launching Today: Mathematica Online

#14

I have been waiting for "Mathematica Online" to be released since they've been giving hints about it "coming soon" since about 2008. So this is a big announcement. Us Sage developers have also been building something similar to this, but around IPython/Sage https://cloud.sagemath.com , and we've also built something similar for embedding in web pages https://sagecell.sagemath.org/ .

I would have loved to have something like this in school. I ended up paying for mathematica while working on my degree. I think IPython/Sage connected to an open-source version of Wolfram Alpha would be a Killer app. Any chance Julia would be integrated at some point?

Re: Launching Today: Mathematica Online

#15
post #14

I have been waiting for "Mathematica Online" to be released since they've been giving hints about it "coming soon" since about 2008. So this is a big announcement. Us Sage developers have also been building something similar to this, but around IPython/Sage https://cloud.sagemath.com , and we've also built something similar for embedding in web pages https://sagecell.sagemath.org/ .

I would have loved to have something like this in school. I ended up paying for mathematica while working on my degree. I think IPython/Sage connected to an open-source version of Wolfram Alpha would be a Killer app. Any chance Julia would be integrated at some point?

Multiple forms of Julia integration in https://cloud.sagemath.com is very high on my list. We already have syntax highlighting for editing julia files, and Julia is installed and usable from the command line. What's missing is support for both IJulia (Ipython notebook julia) and a Julia mode for Sage worksheets.

Re: Launching Today: Mathematica Online

#16
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's a great language, once you get past the fact that writing code in the notebook is a horrible experience. You get a great lisp, along with pattern matching and rule replacement. I can recommend the book by Paul Welling, as well as the books by Michael Trott (very meandering). Just funking things up in the notebook is the most fun I've been having in a long time. You just get sucked into trying more and more thing…

I disagree, I think the notebook is one of the best interfaces I've ever found. Just not for "traditional programming". The notebook is a literate programming document. It contains my thoughts and process for creating an algorithm/piece of code along with tests and examples. This is very, very different from how people traditionally "program". However, Mathematica has some very real, very strong deficiencies if you w…

> Unit testing ... are only available at the higher price levels.

Actually, this is now available for everyone, something I advocated for. VerificationTest and TestReport are the key functions there.

Good implicit suggestion about QuickCheck.

We've supported unit testing in our Eclipse plugin for years, and with V10 brought the MUnit package into the System context with a redesign of the essential functions.

Re: Launching Today: Mathematica Online

#17
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's a great language, once you get past the fact that writing code in the notebook is a horrible experience. You get a great lisp, along with pattern matching and rule replacement. I can recommend the book by Paul Welling, as well as the books by Michael Trott (very meandering). Just funking things up in the notebook is the most fun I've been having in a long time. You just get sucked into trying more and more thing…

I disagree, I think the notebook is one of the best interfaces I've ever found. Just not for "traditional programming". The notebook is a literate programming document. It contains my thoughts and process for creating an algorithm/piece of code along with tests and examples. This is very, very different from how people traditionally "program". However, Mathematica has some very real, very strong deficiencies if you w…

I would add that watching someone who has mastered Mathematica use it is truly an awe inspiring moment.

A coworker is a former Wolfram employee who can explore data analysis in minutes in what it would take me hours/days to do in python.

Re: Launching Today: Mathematica Online

#18
post #5

I'm curious about other people's experiences learning the Wolfram language if they're not already a mathematician. I've been tempted a few times, but the language (and Mathematica itself) has so far struck me as one of those "Sure, seems like it can do amazing things after you already know how to do it" types of technologies. As opposed to languages where you can reason yourself towards the correct approach. It seems…

If you come from a programming background, just treat it as a Lisp with M-expressions rather than S-expressions. It all comes together quite quickly then. At it's core Mathematica is actually a rule rewriting engine. but except for more heavyweight uses you can view it as simply a Lisp with the worlds best standard library.

I found that "just using it as a lisp" was a huge pain: the fact that Mathematica is, as you say, "actually a rule rewriting engine" kept causing it to behave in ways that looked absolutely bonkers if you were trying to think Lisp.

The jungle of function-definition-like expressions and the scoping constructs were particularly bad, but I also found that the language & the culture made it far too difficult to write readable code. (I find my eyes glazing over almost immediately when I try to read the Wolfram blog: it's so very hard for me to see the structure of the code.) Perhaps once you become happy with the core principles of the language all of this gets better, but I spent quite a lot of time thinking it and never really got there.

Moreover, I never figured out how to do iterations quickly; even once I got the thing working, it was prohibitively slow.

Ultimately I re-wrote it in Julia, which was a much better fit for the problem (exact diagonalization of a one-particle tight-binding Hamiltonian). That was a rather more pleasant experience.

Now, this is in part about the problem domain: I wasn't doing any symbolic manipulation, though (IIRC) I was comparing my results with those from some symbolic calculations. (Honestly, I feel pretty stupid for having even tried to do it in Mathematica in the first place.)

The lesson I learned, though, was to never use Mathematica for anything beyond basic symbolic calculations---integrals, that sort of thing.

My experience with Mathematica is sort of like my experience with Fortran: if you stick to the sorts of problems for which it was developed (hard-core numerics for Fortran, symbolic manipulations for Mathematica), it's great, but if you want to do something more general you're in for a rough time.

(I understand Fortran's gotten progressively better, but I don't have any experience with anything after 95, and even that was a codebase heavily inflected with 77.)

Re: Launching Today: Mathematica Online

#19
post #14

I have been waiting for "Mathematica Online" to be released since they've been giving hints about it "coming soon" since about 2008. So this is a big announcement. Us Sage developers have also been building something similar to this, but around IPython/Sage https://cloud.sagemath.com , and we've also built something similar for embedding in web pages https://sagecell.sagemath.org/ .

I would have loved to have something like this in school. I ended up paying for mathematica while working on my degree. I think IPython/Sage connected to an open-source version of Wolfram Alpha would be a Killer app. Any chance Julia would be integrated at some point?

Open source version of Alpha? That will never happen. Wolfram is the most anti-source-code person out there. He even has this diatribe about why you should not be allowed to see "his" source code:

http://reference.wolfram.com/language/tutorial/WhyYouDoNotUs...

Re: Launching Today: Mathematica Online

#20
post #19
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have loved to have something like this in school. I ended up paying for mathematica while working on my degree. I think IPython/Sage connected to an open-source version of Wolfram Alpha would be a Killer app. Any chance Julia would be integrated at some point?

Open source version of Alpha? That will never happen. Wolfram is the most anti-source-code person out there. He even has this diatribe about why you should not be allowed to see "his" source code: http://reference.wolfram.com/language/tutorial/WhyYouDoNotUs...

That's odd for a business so concerned about selling to academia. You'd expect journals to reject papers where the number-crunching went through a "black box" like that.
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