I'm Leaving Mojang • Hacker News Board

Re: I'm Leaving Mojang

#311

Post by tempestn » Mon, Sep 15, 2014, 8:36 PM UTC

nightski wrote: post #210

scottjad wrote: post #86

The other day there was a post about some Doom map viewer Notch had written in Dart. One of the top comments said something along the lines of "This is why we all need to be rich, so we can work on stuff like this." I thought the comment was so sad because honestly, almost no one is going to benefit from a mostly broken Doom map viewer in Dart that's abandoned after a few days. Same with the numerous games he's start…

Minecraft was grown out of the way Notch works. What you are suggesting is impossible. No one, not even Steve Jobs sits down and says "My life mission is to benefit humanity". This is because we really do not know which efforts will have the largest impact on humanity. You could waste a lifetime trying to make a better battery - but it might never happen. Or you could hack around on a game and watch it explode and im…

> No one, not even Steve Jobs sits down and says "My life mission is to benefit humanity".

Musk might be considered a counter-example here. In fact, part of his mission is literally to "make a better battery". Of course in depends on how much you buy into his mythology. Certainly he could have comfortably retired after Paypal though. (Rather than moving on to run two groundbreaking companies - something I'm not sure how one person manages to successfully do.)

Re: I'm Leaving Mojang

#312

Post by grellas » Mon, Sep 15, 2014, 8:37 PM UTC

Why should someone self-immolate in the name of a cause to which he disclaims being a leader when he has a chance to sell his for-profit business on optimal terms with no strings and with an immediate ticket to full independence free of the headaches of having to bear entrepreneurial and ideological burdens that he felt himself unfit to carry?

The question answers itself. There is no earthly reason why he should have. None whatever.

Of course, the price of being a cult figure is many who follow you do not really care who you are but care a great deal about who they think you are. If you are a vital symbol for the cause, then all that you do must conform to the symbol or you become a betrayer, a hypocrite, or both. And that is unforgivable.

And so we arrive at the world of caricature where symbols rule the day, even at the expense of facts. Buck and kick all you want, there is no winning in that world once you fail to conform.

That, I think, is the point of this piece. In effect, it says: "You have made me larger than life. Well, I'm not. I am who I am and I love what I do. If you have made me out to be something more, I can't help that. I am just like the rest of you. No more and no less. If you want me to shape my life by what you think, you will be disappointed. I will shape my own life regardless of your expectations."

Who knows if this really is betrayal or hypocrisy? Usually the reality is much more complex than the caricatures make it out to be but no one really knows except those directly connected with the events.

As for me, I have no ideological axe to grind and can simply stand back and say, as many people likely feel, "that is one helluva ride for one so young to make."

Re: I'm Leaving Mojang

#313

Post by mikeash » Mon, Sep 15, 2014, 8:38 PM UTC

dasil003 wrote: post #307

mikeash wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't confuse talent. I understand that making a video game fun is completely different from raw programming talent or whatever. But merely looking at what Notch has done, it looks to me like he got lucky rather than having some vast talent for making fun games.

And yet you casually quantify talent as being about making a fun game. There are so many flaws in this line of thinking. At the top is the idea that if you make a game fun enough it will take off like Minecraft, but virality is not simply a product of fun, there are so many intangibles that go into blockbuster successes, and the people who get really good at wrangling those elements and distilling out a formula are n…

I honestly have no idea what your problem is with my comment anymore. Are you unhappy that I didn't mention the other things needed for success under "talent"?

Re: I'm Leaving Mojang

#314

Post by wtbob » Mon, Sep 15, 2014, 8:42 PM UTC

paulhauggis wrote: post #186

snlacks wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unfortunate that all our greed and crazy fandom keep scaring the great minds away from continuing to push us all forward.

I think it's less the greed and crazy fandom and more a new generation of people that feel they are entitled to everything and anything they want and if they don't get it, start an online witch hunt. There are numerous examples of this in the past 6 months and in Notch's case, it happened with EULA and 3rd party server support. A community that supports this sort of behavior wouldn't have my support either. I don't b…

> …in Notch's case, it happened with EULA and 3rd party server support.

What, you don't think that people who have paid for a game client and server have the right to run that client and server? That's Freedom 0, and it's fundamental. Attempting to violate it with any sort of EULA is simply wrong.

Re: I'm Leaving Mojang

#315

Post by DanBC » Mon, Sep 15, 2014, 8:44 PM UTC

rpdillon wrote: post #297

scottjad wrote: post #86

The other day there was a post about some Doom map viewer Notch had written in Dart. One of the top comments said something along the lines of "This is why we all need to be rich, so we can work on stuff like this." I thought the comment was so sad because honestly, almost no one is going to benefit from a mostly broken Doom map viewer in Dart that's abandoned after a few days. Same with the numerous games he's start…

I find it ironic that the laws that allowed Notch to cash out were expressly created to forward the progress of science and arts. Yet we find ourselves at a place where the dream is not to work and perfect craft, but to Get Rich Quick so we can relax for the rest of our lives. I, too, find it sad.

Notch has said that he wants to continue working but that he finds the millstone of Minecraft too weighty.

He is getting away from Minecraft and Mojang precisely so that he can perfect his craft and continue to work.

He's not leaving Mojang so that he can go and kick puppies or club seals. I find the calls on him to do something noble to be deeply unpleasant.

Re: I'm Leaving Mojang

#316

Post by DanBC » Mon, Sep 15, 2014, 8:46 PM UTC

jiggy2011 wrote: post #279

DanBC wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He did hand it off to other developers. He was still gettin hate for stuff those other people were doing. I kind of wish that mental health support was better and that he'd had some kind of mentoring to help him deal with it. Perhaps that's a startup idea: support with all the hate and bullshit that comes your way when you're a public figure. More expensive service would include rapid rebuttal service to quash lies a…

You mean a PR firm?

Well, a PR firm with cups of tea and hugs.

Re: I'm Leaving Mojang

#317

Post by wtbob » Mon, Sep 15, 2014, 8:47 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #77

chernevik wrote: post #39

This is why we can't have nice things. I don't know much about Minecraft or whatever issue Notch is referring to in his post. But I'm always struck by how quickly people snap to emotional argument and response, without thinking about the other side of the question, without thinking about how their response will be read or felt by others. The first step in any dialogue is trying to understand why the other side has sa…

The hate weeks ago was about money, basically. Part of EULA that disallowed servers to earn money, but was often ignored. Mojang clarified that that part of EULA is indeed meant as written. People do not tend to be understanding when it comes to loosing money they wanted/expected. Moreover, I suspect that managing Minecraft is a lot about merchandize selling, cons organization, making deals with lego and everyone els…

Remember that the money was necessary in order to pay for the (really quite expensive) servers which people play on. And that Mojang were changing the culture as it has been, and as it has been successful.

It's sad to see the effect this has had on the servers I've played on. And it was all so pointless: at the end of the day, who really cares if players who chuck in $10/month get a free set of diamond armour or a house?

Re: I'm Leaving Mojang

#318

Post by undergroundhero » Mon, Sep 15, 2014, 8:50 PM UTC

jokoon wrote: post #289

tacotime wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...and share his vision of gaming." I think you may be ascribing meaning to a man with no such vision. He says he just wants to have fun and tinker, not change the world and I think that probably sums up his sentiments pretty well. I myself would love to change the world, I don't think you'd ever hear me speak those words. If you're a like-minded individual then I think it can be hard to put yourself in those shoes.…

> He says he just wants to have fun and tinker Then why no try to promote tinkering ? A game company dedicated to game development in a way he deems fit ? > Some people actually are just happy doing what they enjoy. There's always some small thing you wish you could be able to make, some quirky, imaginary idea you want to achieve. When you see what's on the market, you know and wish you could just do better. This kin…

> Then why no try to promote tinkering ? A game company dedicated to game development in a way he deems fit ?

But why? If he doesn't want to run Mojang, he probably doesn't want to start another game company at the moment.

Can he enjoy tinkering around himself without having to go on some divine mission to spread his ideas and passions around the world?

Re: I'm Leaving Mojang

#319

Post by vacri » Mon, Sep 15, 2014, 8:52 PM UTC

snlacks wrote: post #92

tst wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the analogy to Wozniak is great. I remember an article some months ago in which he basically said the same: He wants to tinker and hack. I remember watching some parts of notch's livestreams. I loved the enthusiasm he had. He was a bit like a young boy, trying things, throwing some away, creating games. I'm happy for his decision.

It's unfortunate that all our greed and crazy fandom keep scaring the great minds away from continuing to push us all forward.

Come on, it's the entertainment industry. You don't see greed and crazy fandom pushing away fundamentally important people like Vint Cerf, since their work isn't related to entertainment.

Wozniak was unusual in that his story wasn't entertainmnet-related, but most of these "I can't handle the public's demands for my attention" stories come from the entertainment industry.

Re: I'm Leaving Mojang

#320

Post by drzaiusapelord » Mon, Sep 15, 2014, 8:53 PM UTC

scottjad wrote: post #86

The other day there was a post about some Doom map viewer Notch had written in Dart. One of the top comments said something along the lines of "This is why we all need to be rich, so we can work on stuff like this." I thought the comment was so sad because honestly, almost no one is going to benefit from a mostly broken Doom map viewer in Dart that's abandoned after a few days. Same with the numerous games he's start…

Oh come on. The reality is that most people who get freak success are very often one-trick ponies. They don't often have a second chapter and some/most of the ones that do, do so only because they are highly driven type-A personalities who thrive on competition, which is the opposite of who Notch is, from what I can tell. Notch probably understands this and pardon me if I don't accept your morality argument over whats essentially a mild distraction (a video game).

With Notch's new found wealth, he could, say, start a charitable foundation or whatever he wants which could impact people a whole hell of a lot more people and in arguably better ways than Minecraft 2: Electric Bugaloo.