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LIVE NOW: Glenn Greenwald, Assange, and Kim Dot Com in NZ

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Re: LIVE NOW: Glenn Greenwald, Assange, and Kim Dot Com in NZ

#41

Post by jacquesm »

idlewords wrote: post #39
jacquesm wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

KDC or Glenn Greenwald raped anybody? Has Assange been convicted of rape? Has a charge even been brought?

An arrest warrant was issued and the guy fled to escape being charged. And then he ran again . So saying he hasn't been convicted or charged is a pretty high-chutzpah defense.

You have your timing mixed up.

Please study the case in detail before you make such charged statements.

The timing there is very subtle and open to several interpretations depending on how you want to fill in the blanks:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assange_v_Swedish_Prosecution_A...

So I won't blame you, it's an extremely complex case that does not lend itself to the issuing of 5 word sound bites.

It's complex because all parties appear to have behaved in weird and sometimes in-explicable ways and all parties seem to have made morally questionable moves (including the prosecutor).

You mention 'less rape' as if to you rape has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt. Normally such language is used for convicted criminals.

It's perfectly ok with me if you don't like Assange, I'm of the opinion if he did just the bits that he has admitted to and that seem to be indisputable that he's a complete douchebag but the behaviour of the women, the authorities and the process up to and including Assanges holing up in the Equadorian Embassy in London make me stop very much short of calling him a rapist. I may change that position in the future, but I'll wait for the trial (assuming there ever is one).

There is a ton of stuff there that's questionable at a minimum not the least of which is the series of actions by the Swedish prosecutor.

Re: LIVE NOW: Glenn Greenwald, Assange, and Kim Dot Com in NZ

#42

Post by caractacus »

aw3c2 wrote: post #27

This feels like the typical Kimble self-advertising event. Disgusting.

I am surprised that Greenwald and Snowden are choosing to reveal all this at an event that seems to have been orchestrated by Dotcom and prefaced by his typical self-publicising exaggerated rhetoric.

Re: LIVE NOW: Glenn Greenwald, Assange, and Kim Dot Com in NZ

#43

Post by mrmondo »

bitserf wrote: post #35
mrmondo wrote: post #32

As a New Zealander, I have not felt more disgusted by a Prime Minister since Muldoon. This isn't news to those of us in the tech sector with experience in NZ - but it's amazing for international hero's such as Glenn Greenwald, Edward Snowden and Assange speak out so publicly about the grease-bag that is John Key and his party. Apologies for the loaded wording, I feel very passionately about the freedom of New Zealand…

Fellow NZ citizen. Could not agree more. I hope we will have more engagement of the citizenry this election.

As will I - I'm not for or against any party other than knowing that National has always failed NZ due to corruption and dirty politics, here's the link for international voting information: http://www.elections.org.nz/events/2014-general-election/vot...

Re: LIVE NOW: Glenn Greenwald, Assange, and Kim Dot Com in NZ

#44

Post by mrmondo »

[deleted] wrote: post #31
sschueller wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is actually at this very moment advertising his Mega service :)

[deleted]

NZer here: Can't stand KDC, that however was the only moment in the whole stream he talked that I saw.

Re: LIVE NOW: Glenn Greenwald, Assange, and Kim Dot Com in NZ

#47

Post by thaumaturgy »

jacquesm wrote: post #34
skidoo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politics make strange bedfellows. That said, I think that ideologically, all of these men are absolutely on the same page... of persons who will never in their lifetimes be invited to any White House gala. And good for them.

> That said, I think that ideologically, all of these men are absolutely on the same page... I don't think even they would agree to that. KDC is a serial criminal/fraudster with a ton of convictions to his name that will pursue a buck no matter what he has to do for it. Glenn Greenwald is a journalist who will not be pushed or pressured into behaving as governments believe he should, who has taught a superb lesson in…

I think that's a little unfair to KDC; at the very least, it is no more a complete picture of the man than "John Doe is a felon" is of anyone else. There are a lot of other people who see Assange as nothing more than "rapist on the run".

Dotcom hasn't stopped fighting his imprisonment and the seizure and loss of his equipment, business, and customers' data, even though he's already won far more than maybe anyone else in his position could have hoped to win in this age. He easily could have gone back home, moved to another country, and faded into obscurity; instead, he relaunched the service that got him into so much trouble in the first place, and has seemingly made it his mission to embarrass the governments involved as much as possible.

Whether his motives are entirely selfish, for his own aggrandizement -- as I suspect they probably are -- or more altruistic, I'm still glad he's pouring so much of his resources into this.

Re: LIVE NOW: Glenn Greenwald, Assange, and Kim Dot Com in NZ

#48

Post by prawn »

vonklaus wrote: post #12
ericHosick wrote: post #4

Will any of this really make any difference? I feel that, in the long run, it won't. Edit: And to further clarify my question (since I'm being down-voted for a very legitimate question)... I know a lot of smart people and none of them (as in 0 of them) seem to take any notice to these conversations. There is a lot of apathy towards mass surveillance. Sure, the conversation comes up a lot on HN but HN is not a very go…

I think a large amount of people don't understand the full extent more than intellectually. They are aware that it is happening but it doesn't have real context. They aren't aware that their position is tracked or logged, their porn habits monitored and that their is a subset of the population that has become wildly powerful and extremely clandestine. However, people are taking note. People like Ladar Levinson and ot…

I think base instincts and interests override any interest in acting. It's easier to pull up your favourite porn and hope no one cares or pays your actions any attention than it is to speak up and be seen as that guy walking against the crowd.

I also think "I've got nothing to hide" is overwhelmingly more popular than people understanding the slippery slopes involved.

Re: LIVE NOW: Glenn Greenwald, Assange, and Kim Dot Com in NZ

#50

Post by vidarh »

ericHosick wrote: post #23
nodata wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't if you push an attitude like that.

An attitude? This stuff seems to happen again and again throughout history. Me asking this may bring root cause problems to the conversation too. You would think the world view of a large number of people would have changed considering things like the cold war with the U.S.S.R, Iran-Contra, Bay-of-Tonkin, etc. If it had, mass surveillance would be a lot more prevalent in every day communication.

All of what you list is about a generation or more away. I'm 39. I have some sort of relationship to the cold war and Iran-Contra. But I suspect I'm an outlier even in that respect, in that I was 15 when the SSSR finally collapsed, and I know most of my friends at school at that time had only a vague understanding of what was going on and rarely paid attention to politics. Most of them would probably not be able to explain anything about Iran-Contra. And for me as well, Bay-of-Tonkin is something out of the history books, that would have been covered in minutes (maybe it is given more attention in US schools) and never mentioned again.

Don't underestimate just how short lived collective memory is.

I'm from Norway. In 1996 massive illegal political surveillance was rolled up in Norway. The agency that is now the Police Security Service was found to have carried out extensive illegal phone taps and other surveillance for decades, primarily targeting the Norwegian left. It was all over the news, and included its fair share of scandals, such as when one of the members of parliament investigating the surveillance uncovered that he was being subjected to illegal surveillance during his work on investigating the illegal surveillance.

I personally know people who where subjected to it, one of whom security service staff would taunt in public about fights he'd had with his wife in his own home to make it clear to him they listened to everything they said.

Yet during debates about Snowden etc. in Norway now, this is rarely mentioned unless I bring it up, and most people seems shocked at the idea that something like this could happen in Norway - despite the extensive evidence that was uncovered of decades of surveillance like this that culminated in a system where people could even apply to get copies of their files, and a lot of people got a lot of files that showed a lot of completely ridiculous surveillance that served no real purpose.

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