Uber Drivers “Strike” and Switch to Lyft Over Fares and Conditions • Hacker News Board

Re: Uber Drivers “Strike” and Switch to Lyft Over Fares and Conditions

#61

Post by ForHackernews » Fri, Sep 12, 2014, 6:03 PM UTC

calpaterson wrote: post #54

ForHackernews wrote: post #6

What would it take for somebody to just build a free, open-source matchmaking service for drivers and riders? It doesn't seem like what Lyft or Uber offer is very technically demanding (perhaps doing it at scale is), and presumably you could attract a lot more drivers by offering them the chance to keep ~99% of the fare. The existence of Lyft demonstrates that Uber's first-mover advantage isn't insurmountable, so who…

Who would provide customer service, sales, marketing, user research and the other non-technical elements of the business? It's true of many companies that what they do is not very technically demanding (Amazon, Facebook, eBay, etc) but that very often means that you _can't_ replicate them by just replicating the technology - these successful companies are much more than just their software. And anyway, I bet there is…

> Who would provide customer service, sales, marketing, user research and the other non-technical elements of the business?

Do you need any of those things? How much does Craigslist spend on marketing and sales?

Operate as a non-profit, compete only on price, and let drivers spread the word themselves. Imagine if at the end of the ride, your Uber driver told you, "Hey, next time call me with the CheapRides app and it'll cost you 20% less, and I'll make more."

Re: Uber Drivers “Strike” and Switch to Lyft Over Fares and Conditions

#62

Post by stonemetal » Fri, Sep 12, 2014, 6:08 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #41

yumraj wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Basically while there are network effects in the sense that any provider (Uber, Lyft etc.) will need to have some critical mass before there are enough drivers and enough riders, both can subscribe to multiple providers and there is no long-term stickiness at the moment. In other words, this is not a winner take all market with FB/LinkedIn/Twitter type network stickiness and the overall market is still fair gam…

How would you say self-driving vehicles fit into this? Supposedly they're rolling out in ~3-5 years, and with self-driving vehicles, you no longer need the middle man managing a fleet of contractors. EDIT: I'm willing to me a Long Bet [1] with anyone regarding fully autonomous self driving vehicles in regular use in 6 years. [1] http://longbets.org/ ; http://longbets.org/rules/

Someone will still need to manage the fleet of self driving cars. Who is going to fill them with gas, do routine maintenance, clean them after some drunk dude puked all over the back seat, etc?

Re: Uber Drivers “Strike” and Switch to Lyft Over Fares and Conditions

#63

Post by ebiester » Fri, Sep 12, 2014, 6:10 PM UTC

aetherson wrote: post #56

Aqueous wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're right that isn't out of loyalty that people use one or the other service. But it's de facto loyalty - also known as (extreme) laziness. Most people are using Lyft and Uber for the convenience. Thus if both are about the same level of convenience they will probably not shop around for a new app even if the competitor has a lower rate. They will go to the Lyft or the Uber app if it is already on their ph…

I work for Flywheel, a (much smaller) competitor in the same space. Customers like you describe certainly exist, and may be the majority, but mercenary customers who switch services are a large subset of the total. For example, we don't surge, and a substantial number of our customers report that they only use us when Uber and Lyft are surging. There's also a time-frame issue here. The number of users who check diffe…

Off-topic, but Do you have a timeline for getting into the Boston market, or a suggestion of an app out here? Taxi dispatch is terrible in this city. I was a consistent flywheel customer in SF and loved it.

Re: Uber Drivers “Strike” and Switch to Lyft Over Fares and Conditions

#64

Post by jbigelow76 » Fri, Sep 12, 2014, 6:15 PM UTC

peatmoss wrote: post #53

jbigelow76 wrote: post #42

The drivers, who are mostly comprised of SUV and black car drivers, have planned a protest outside of the Long Island City Uber Office I wonder how much good the office protest will do versus just emailing Uber saying "Adios Uber! I'm headed to Lyft because of..." The on site picketing made sense for blue collar industrial and government workers because the switching cost of quitting your job and (hoping) to get hire…

The media attention that drivers get through this action help signal to consumers that they are moving to a competitor. This might make me (a rider) more likely to fire up the Lyft app instead of Uber next time I need a ride.

True, media attention is important but I wonder if the protest will make it onto more mainstream channels and not just the tech news/blogosphere.

Local papers in Dallas have been doing quite a bit of coverage as Uber and Lyft taken on the politically connected taxi industry here. I don't know if intra-service fighting would get as much attention.

Maybe some HNers in the Long Island area will chime in.

Re: Uber Drivers “Strike” and Switch to Lyft Over Fares and Conditions

#65

Post by jkestner » Fri, Sep 12, 2014, 6:20 PM UTC

smacktoward wrote: post #24

jefflinwood wrote: post #14

The really interesting story here is that if drivers are so willing to switch networks for better opportunities, there isn't a compelling reason for Uber to have the valuation that they do. The value of Uber isn't really in the tech or the app - it's in the networks of riders and drivers in each city. If each of those can be aggregated into some other kind of service, where Uber, Lyft, etc. are just providers of paym…

I'm not sure a middleman service is even really necessary. There's plenty of drivers right now driving for multiple services. The more services there are, the more competition there is for drivers' time, which means drivers have more leverage. One could read Uber's insistence on canning drivers who turn down too many rides as an attempt to reduce this leverage, since the only way drivers can exercise it is to turn do…

> There's plenty of drivers right now driving for multiple services. The more services there are, the more competition there is for drivers' time, which means drivers have more leverage.

We're gonna need an Uber for Ubers. But of course a middleman is necessary - who's going to match customers and available drivers? But if drivers have the leverage, it could resemble more of an agent relationship.

Why haven't Uber/Lyft demanded exclusivity with drivers?

Re: Uber Drivers “Strike” and Switch to Lyft Over Fares and Conditions

#66

Post by toomuchtodo » Fri, Sep 12, 2014, 6:21 PM UTC

stonemetal wrote: post #62

toomuchtodo wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you say self-driving vehicles fit into this? Supposedly they're rolling out in ~3-5 years, and with self-driving vehicles, you no longer need the middle man managing a fleet of contractors. EDIT: I'm willing to me a Long Bet [1] with anyone regarding fully autonomous self driving vehicles in regular use in 6 years. [1] http://longbets.org/ ; http://longbets.org/rules/

Someone will still need to manage the fleet of self driving cars. Who is going to fill them with gas, do routine maintenance, clean them after some drunk dude puked all over the back seat, etc?

If they're electric vehicles, they'll charge on their own based on closest charging station and the cost of electricity at the time they need their charge. Also, the only maintenance you'd require would be tire rotations/changes every ~5K miles, and a new battery every 150K-200K miles (Tesla automated the battery pack swap, I'm sure they could automate pulling four wheels off and bolting four new ones back on).

I agree someone is going to need to clean them out though.

Re: Uber Drivers “Strike” and Switch to Lyft Over Fares and Conditions

#67

Post by ed » Fri, Sep 12, 2014, 6:21 PM UTC

I can think of two possible sources of driver lock-in: insurance (on the clock but between rides) and car financing. Anyone heard of uber or lyft working on this?

Re: Uber Drivers “Strike” and Switch to Lyft Over Fares and Conditions

#68

Post by kapkapkap » Fri, Sep 12, 2014, 6:21 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #41

yumraj wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Basically while there are network effects in the sense that any provider (Uber, Lyft etc.) will need to have some critical mass before there are enough drivers and enough riders, both can subscribe to multiple providers and there is no long-term stickiness at the moment. In other words, this is not a winner take all market with FB/LinkedIn/Twitter type network stickiness and the overall market is still fair gam…

How would you say self-driving vehicles fit into this? Supposedly they're rolling out in ~3-5 years, and with self-driving vehicles, you no longer need the middle man managing a fleet of contractors. EDIT: I'm willing to me a Long Bet [1] with anyone regarding fully autonomous self driving vehicles in regular use in 6 years. [1] http://longbets.org/ ; http://longbets.org/rules/

Autonomous vehicles that can navigate city roads and do not require any driver behind the wheel are most certainly not 3-5 years away.

Re: Uber Drivers “Strike” and Switch to Lyft Over Fares and Conditions

#69

Post by esMazer » Fri, Sep 12, 2014, 6:23 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #41

yumraj wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Basically while there are network effects in the sense that any provider (Uber, Lyft etc.) will need to have some critical mass before there are enough drivers and enough riders, both can subscribe to multiple providers and there is no long-term stickiness at the moment. In other words, this is not a winner take all market with FB/LinkedIn/Twitter type network stickiness and the overall market is still fair gam…

How would you say self-driving vehicles fit into this? Supposedly they're rolling out in ~3-5 years, and with self-driving vehicles, you no longer need the middle man managing a fleet of contractors. EDIT: I'm willing to me a Long Bet [1] with anyone regarding fully autonomous self driving vehicles in regular use in 6 years. [1] http://longbets.org/ ; http://longbets.org/rules/

~3-5 years is way too soon. The technology might be ready but the governments (think regulations, traffic laws, car insurance companies, car manufacturers, etc etc etc ) in addition to the public (which is not ready either). Is going to take at least 10+ years for it to resemble something like you imagine it.

Re: Uber Drivers “Strike” and Switch to Lyft Over Fares and Conditions

#70

Post by Shivetya » Fri, Sep 12, 2014, 6:23 PM UTC

ivraatiems wrote: post #21

smacktoward wrote: post #15

Update -- Uber reverses policy: http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/09/12/uber_drivers_...

I'm genuinely surprised. I imagine this is just a policy of minimum appeasement, but it's very interesting how rapid the change was. Edit: Also, the strike is going forward - not all of their demands were met. Maybe this is just so Uber can say "hey, we tried to do what they asked?"

Its bound to happen as long as there is a viable competitor within the market. Until then Uber really doesn't have a choice, they cannot lock in drivers.