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Feds Threatened to Fine Yahoo $250K Daily for Not Complying with NSA's PRISM

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Re: Feds Threatened to Fine Yahoo $250K Daily for Not Complying with NSA's PRISM

#131

Post by mike_hearn »

skue wrote: post #73
ams6110 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some point people would have started being thrown in jail and that's when resistance usually ends.

Right, but what would that look like? Would the FISA court jail a citizen without a trial, and can you imagine a FISA judge wanting to make that call, knowing that their decision will soon become public? Because once someone is prosecuted the U.S. govt would really have difficulty enforcing silence. It's one thing to force a company to be silent about surveillance, it's quite another to force individuals to be silent…

I have read that the FISA court can indeed hold sometime in contempt secretly. For all we know if Yahoo had continued to resist their executives would have simply started disappearing.

Re: Feds Threatened to Fine Yahoo $250K Daily for Not Complying with NSA's PRISM

#132

Post by spindritf »

jacquesm wrote: post #118
comrade1 wrote: post #27

I wish there was a way to post anon here. I create a new id every now and then and post but no one sees the posting because it's new... I wish more people would be outraged by where the u.s. Is going and just leave. If you're educated, have desirable skills, you can just come to Europe. If you think you can change what's happening in the u.s. I do not agree with you. You will lose to the political class. They have 10…

The age of your account has absolutely nothing to do with who sees your posting. Making new ids every now and then is strange, there is absolutely no need for that unless you are divulging something that might cost you your job or that you're embarrassed to share. As for your 'come to Europe' call, America needs critical Americans just as much as Europe needs critical Europeans. The better solution would be to push f…

Making new ids every now and then is strange

Cycling through IDs online seems like a great way to prevent stuff from haunting you later. It's hard to predict what will turn out to be embarrassing or can cost you your job later.

In theory, you would need to be very careful to prevent a determined adversary from chaining those IDs together and back to you. In practice, it seems unlikely that anyone would be that determined.

Re: Feds Threatened to Fine Yahoo $250K Daily for Not Complying with NSA's PRISM

#133

Post by jdimov »

DominikR wrote: post #128

A militarized police state, the state subjugating private businesses according to its needs, state intrusions into the most private spheres of its citizens, executions of US citizens without trial, kidnappings - it all looks like we are moving straight into fascism. And I'm seeing the same pattern in the EU where I live since it basically copies whatever the US does. "Fascist governments encouraged the pursuit of pri…

The US and Israel now have what the Nazis could only dream about.

Re: Feds Threatened to Fine Yahoo $250K Daily for Not Complying with NSA's PRISM

#135

Post by [deleted] »

amirmc wrote: post #115
skue wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but what would that look like? Would the FISA court jail a citizen without a trial, and can you imagine a FISA judge wanting to make that call, knowing that their decision will soon become public? Because once someone is prosecuted the U.S. govt would really have difficulty enforcing silence. It's one thing to force a company to be silent about surveillance, it's quite another to force individuals to be silent…

In an era of 'parallel construction', you build a separate case and use that as leverage. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction

[deleted]

Re: Feds Threatened to Fine Yahoo $250K Daily for Not Complying with NSA's PRISM

#136

Post by bostik »

jqm wrote: post #61
comrade1 wrote: post #27

I wish there was a way to post anon here. I create a new id every now and then and post but no one sees the posting because it's new... I wish more people would be outraged by where the u.s. Is going and just leave. If you're educated, have desirable skills, you can just come to Europe. If you think you can change what's happening in the u.s. I do not agree with you. You will lose to the political class. They have 10…

Europe's management has it's own set of problems. I might add, Europe has also been at war for most of the time it has been inhabited. Just because parts of Europe have taken a break for the last 60 years doesn't negate this.

I expect that it'd be difficult to find any major region in the entire history of the world with 60 years without war.

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if that was even built in to humans on a sociological level. The recurring need for sword/spear/arrow/cannon fodder has been a socially acceptable way to prevent accumulation of an excess of (male) population. As soon as there are too many disgruntled people, those in power start to worry. Sending this cumbersome segment of population off to be killed has been, historically, a perfectly valid way to deal with the problem. (It has also provided a very convenient way to direct attention away from domestic problems.)

Nature shows the same tendency. When a local population of a species grows too great, lack of resources forces some of them to migrate outside their "normal" region. The inhabitants of the regions under invasion fight back, and eventually things return to an equilibrium.

Re: Feds Threatened to Fine Yahoo $250K Daily for Not Complying with NSA's PRISM

#137

Post by TeMPOraL »

chris_wot wrote: post #134

Yeah? I'd just refuse to pay, what are they going to do - publicize it?

Dig up that tax report 5 years ago you accidentally did wrong. Unofficially point the MAFIAA towards the fact that your kid pirated few songs and a movie last month. Or find something else entirely. You'll end up in jail or with no money for reasons (on the surface) completely unrelated to the case.

Re: Feds Threatened to Fine Yahoo $250K Daily for Not Complying with NSA's PRISM

#138

Post by DominikR »

jdimov wrote: post #133
DominikR wrote: post #128

A militarized police state, the state subjugating private businesses according to its needs, state intrusions into the most private spheres of its citizens, executions of US citizens without trial, kidnappings - it all looks like we are moving straight into fascism. And I'm seeing the same pattern in the EU where I live since it basically copies whatever the US does. "Fascist governments encouraged the pursuit of pri…

The US and Israel now have what the Nazis could only dream about.

I do not like how Israel is always portrayed as some thug that is pulling the strings. Israel is a small satellite state of the US in a very important region, therefore Israel is very important to the US in realizing its goals to dominate this region.

Also, the comparison with Nazi Germany is wrong. The US does not have any racial ideology, it wants to dominate economically and militarily, not destroy if it doesn't have to.

A government that is fascist doesn't mean automatically that it has any policies towards certain races. It just means that it gradually removes freedoms of its citizens in every sphere to excert greater control over its population.

The only reason that muslims are victimized on this scale is that mostly muslims live in that region. If the region was mostly habitated by a buddhist or jewish population that isn't compliant with US demands, then buddhists or jews would be the victims.

Re: Feds Threatened to Fine Yahoo $250K Daily for Not Complying with NSA's PRISM

#139

Post by yamayb »

DominikR wrote: post #138
jdimov wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US and Israel now have what the Nazis could only dream about.

I do not like how Israel is always portrayed as some thug that is pulling the strings. Israel is a small satellite state of the US in a very important region, therefore Israel is very important to the US in realizing its goals to dominate this region. Also, the comparison with Nazi Germany is wrong. The US does not have any racial ideology, it wants to dominate economically and militarily, not destroy if it doesn't h…

I don't think he means that Israel is pulling the strings -- but that is debatable (see AIPAC).

I think what he is saying is that the fascist governments and capabilities of Israel and the U.S. would have been envied by Nazi germany.

Maybe he has a point. Just consider the recent round of violence (to put it lightly, some might call it ethnic cleansing) in gaza. Now consider the success of dehumanizing the palestinians to the point where nobody in the world -- not even the arab nations took significant diplomatic action against Israeli aggression. Consider that in context of the scale of destruction of civilian infrastructure and the rate of civilian casualties. Huge propaganda success. All in this day and age of twitter/fb despite near total destruction of Gaza and overwhelming deaths of civilians.

How many countries outside of south america recalled ambassadors? How much divestment? How many canceled contracts gas/weapons/settlement-products? Nothing significant enough to reverse Israeli actions. In the end, Israel only stopped because there was nothing left to destroy.

Re: Feds Threatened to Fine Yahoo $250K Daily for Not Complying with NSA's PRISM

#140

Post by dredmorbius »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #110
dredmorbius wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting comparison, but it's still a pretty big hit. Profits (net income) over the past four quarters were $311 million, the fines would have eaten nearly a third of that, $91.25 million. For 2008 the percentage may well have been higher.

For internet companies, profits are nearly meaningless. Profits are just a financial game these companies play with Wall Street, moving investments from one quarter or year to another by playing around with amortization and other financial tricks to hit EPS targets, a metric that only makes sense for Coca-Colas and GEs. Revenue is what matters, and the $7.2 billion in revenue Yahoo generated in 2008 leaves plenty of…

While financial games are a significant issue, I wouldn't discount profit entirely. Looking at the components of cost-of-revenues will give you some idea of how easy that money is.

It's actually a fairly interesting point on reflection. I look at it as metabolic efficiency.

Note that YHOO's profit margins are fairly high as well.

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