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Feds Threatened to Fine Yahoo $250K Daily for Not Complying with NSA's PRISM

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Re: Feds Threatened to Fine Yahoo $250K Daily for Not Complying with NSA's PRISM

#51

Post by ams6110 »

AVTizzle wrote: post #46
rdtsc wrote: post #28

$250K/day -- someone had to come up with that number. Was it some high level official? An intern? I can imagine this dialogue taking place: ---- (Two bureaucrat monkeys. They just got back from lunch from cafeteria at Ft. Meade. Their tummies are bit heavy with greasy hamburgers. Settling in to finish their day before 2pm. One last thing needs to be done -- deciding on this PRISM non-compliance issue) M0: What if the…

I was already loving your comment, and then you name-dropped College Park, MD my home for 4 years of undergraduate. But you make a good point. There was a real life human (or humans) on the creating end of that number. Do you think they believe they're actually fighting for American Freedoms and Security?

Do you think they believe they're actually fighting for American Freedoms and Security

Yes, they probably do think that.

Re: Feds Threatened to Fine Yahoo $250K Daily for Not Complying with NSA's PRISM

#52

Post by monsterix »

privong wrote: post #48
otakucode wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably... but in order to bring any lawsuit against the US government (presuming they don't pay... which they wouldn't), the US government has to grant you permission to sue them. So chances are that debt would go nowhere.

> (presuming they don't pay... which they wouldn't) If they did, it would just come out of the pockets of taxpayers anyways.

That's probably one more way to rile up things further and gather attention from the silent _useless_ majority. Just sayin' it!

Re: Feds Threatened to Fine Yahoo $250K Daily for Not Complying with NSA's PRISM

#53

Post by ams6110 »

benologist wrote: post #5
joshavant wrote: post #3

Weren't these requests, which Yahoo objected to, intended to stay secret, by the wishes of the government? Consider if Yahoo refused to honor the requests, and began accruing the fines. Presumably, if they didn't pay the huge bill for their fines, what would happen? Surely, $250k/day would rack up fast... As I see it, eventually Yahoo would rack up such a bill that they couldn't afford it, and any collection of the f…

I was thinking about that because it seemed like a cost they could just afford to ignore ($91m/yr), this was probably not the limit of the penalties they could have faced.

At some point people would have started being thrown in jail and that's when resistance usually ends.

Re: Feds Threatened to Fine Yahoo $250K Daily for Not Complying with NSA's PRISM

#54

Post by rsync »

idlewords wrote: post #37
comrade1 wrote: post #27

I wish there was a way to post anon here. I create a new id every now and then and post but no one sees the posting because it's new... I wish more people would be outraged by where the u.s. Is going and just leave. If you're educated, have desirable skills, you can just come to Europe. If you think you can change what's happening in the u.s. I do not agree with you. You will lose to the political class. They have 10…

Some of us are outraged by where the U.S. is going but stay to try to fix it. Otherwise you get adverse selection effects, like when all the non-crazies left New Hampshire. Plus have you ever had a European burrito? It's not pretty.

Well, at least there is finally passable sushi being made in Zurich. That's a very, very new thing.

All kidding aside - the euro countries are no better than the US in these areas. They have different code-names and the agencies are different, but they're all going the same direction.

Re: Feds Threatened to Fine Yahoo $250K Daily for Not Complying with NSA's PRISM

#55

Post by ntsb »

benologist wrote: post #5
joshavant wrote: post #3

Weren't these requests, which Yahoo objected to, intended to stay secret, by the wishes of the government? Consider if Yahoo refused to honor the requests, and began accruing the fines. Presumably, if they didn't pay the huge bill for their fines, what would happen? Surely, $250k/day would rack up fast... As I see it, eventually Yahoo would rack up such a bill that they couldn't afford it, and any collection of the f…

I was thinking about that because it seemed like a cost they could just afford to ignore ($91m/yr), this was probably not the limit of the penalties they could have faced.

Seeing how the gov't can seemingly pull fines and penalties out from thin air (a la Russia Sanctions still ongoing and new), I think it's safe to say the $250K per day would have only been just the beginning.

Re: Feds Threatened to Fine Yahoo $250K Daily for Not Complying with NSA's PRISM

#56

Post by 3pt14159 »

comrade1 wrote: post #27

I wish there was a way to post anon here. I create a new id every now and then and post but no one sees the posting because it's new... I wish more people would be outraged by where the u.s. Is going and just leave. If you're educated, have desirable skills, you can just come to Europe. If you think you can change what's happening in the u.s. I do not agree with you. You will lose to the political class. They have 10…

This is why I haven't taken countless opportunities to move to the US from Toronto.

Willingly working in America is supporting the surveillance and military state. Yes, Canada is part of Five Eyes, but the political will to surveil everything is centred in America and the UK, Canada is just along for the ride because the cost to our defensive interests is too great to go against our NATO / NORAD arrangements.

Re: Feds Threatened to Fine Yahoo $250K Daily for Not Complying with NSA's PRISM

#57

Post by comrade1 »

rsync wrote: post #54
idlewords wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of us are outraged by where the U.S. is going but stay to try to fix it. Otherwise you get adverse selection effects, like when all the non-crazies left New Hampshire. Plus have you ever had a European burrito? It's not pretty.

Well, at least there is finally passable sushi being made in Zurich. That's a very, very new thing. All kidding aside - the euro countries are no better than the US in these areas. They have different code-names and the agencies are different, but they're all going the same direction.

You're just plain wrong. Not about the sushi. Europe doesn't have the means nor the corporate-government cooperation that the u.s. has for spying. It happens in Europe, even Switzerland, but for good, not evil. For example, Switzerland reoprting to the Red Cross the CIA rendition flights that it learned through its satellite communications monitoring program.

There's decent Mexican inn Basel. A Mexican and 1/2 Mexican Swiss have a restaurant.

Re: Feds Threatened to Fine Yahoo $250K Daily for Not Complying with NSA's PRISM

#58

Post by comrade1 »

idlewords wrote: post #37
comrade1 wrote: post #27

I wish there was a way to post anon here. I create a new id every now and then and post but no one sees the posting because it's new... I wish more people would be outraged by where the u.s. Is going and just leave. If you're educated, have desirable skills, you can just come to Europe. If you think you can change what's happening in the u.s. I do not agree with you. You will lose to the political class. They have 10…

Some of us are outraged by where the U.S. is going but stay to try to fix it. Otherwise you get adverse selection effects, like when all the non-crazies left New Hampshire. Plus have you ever had a European burrito? It's not pretty.

What are you doing to change the system?

Re: Feds Threatened to Fine Yahoo $250K Daily for Not Complying with NSA's PRISM

#59

Post by tptacek »

xnull wrote: post #10

This is nothing compared to what allegedly happened to QWest. When the US Government was forcing telecom by telecom to install taps into their business's core routing hubs Joseph Nacchio, the CEO at the time, dug his heels in demanding legal avenues to avoid turning his back on QWest's customers. The US threatened to pull out large contracts that made up a large part of QWest's business. Furthermore, having been serv…

Reprising a comment from a long time ago:

Nacchio was convicted of running a pump-and-dump insider trading scam that netted him ~$100MM at the expense of common public shareholders. If there's an award for "most obnoxious implication of NSA's wrongdoing", it should go to the attempted rehabilitation of people like Nacchio.

Here's the indictment. It's quite straightforward.

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2007/0307...

Here's the cliff notes:

"No later than December 4, 2000, through and including September 10, 2001, NACCHIO was aware of material, non-public information about Qwest’s business, including, but not limited to" [litany of distressing concerns about Qwest's bottom line which ultimately proved dispositive in valuing Qwest].

Note the date.

Now, look at this table of Nacchio's stock sales:

http://oi60.tinypic.com/2n1tgr6.jpg

Nacchio claims to have believed that secret national security government contracts were going to rescue Qwest from their financial problems (note the implicit concession that Qwest had problems from which its financials needed to be rescued). One tie-in between Nacchio and NSA is the notion that by refusing requests from NSA, Nacchio lost those contracts. Stipulate that this is true; it's a plausible complaint. Nacchio still took the money and ran.

Re: Feds Threatened to Fine Yahoo $250K Daily for Not Complying with NSA's PRISM

#60

Post by comrade1 »

comrade1 wrote: post #57
rsync wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, at least there is finally passable sushi being made in Zurich. That's a very, very new thing. All kidding aside - the euro countries are no better than the US in these areas. They have different code-names and the agencies are different, but they're all going the same direction.

You're just plain wrong. Not about the sushi. Europe doesn't have the means nor the corporate-government cooperation that the u.s. has for spying. It happens in Europe, even Switzerland, but for good, not evil. For example, Switzerland reoprting to the Red Cross the CIA rendition flights that it learned through its satellite communications monitoring program. There's decent Mexican inn Basel. A Mexican and 1/2 Mexica…

Btw, yes I know that it was reported to the Red Cross anonymously, not officially.
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