Our First $37,800 in Annual Recurring Revenue • Hacker News Board

Re: Our First $37,800 in Annual Recurring Revenue

#21

Post by aculver » Thu, Sep 11, 2014, 5:33 PM UTC

dangrossman wrote: post #17

A bit tangential: If you have a problem with losing customers to expired credit cards and already have a good dunning process, talk to the guys at Spreedly about their "Card on File Updater". They're a payment gateway agnostic credit card vault, but one of the services they're trialing (you have to ask to join the beta right now) is automatic updating of expired credit card numbers. They have access to the bank syste…

So, just want to make sure it's clear to folks reading (because it's been a source of confusion for prospective customers in the past) that "card account updaters" and a service like Churn Buster are not mutually exclusive. For example, we have customers who utilize "card account updaters" like what you're talking about, and they still have a substantial number of customers failing payments even after that process has run it's course. That's where Churn Buster comes in.

Normally you'd expect Churn Buster to implement this background behind-the-scenes card account updating itself, but the reason we don't is that the trend and expectation in the industry is, or is becoming, that the actual payment gateway themselves provide this service, because they're by far in the best position to do it at scale. For example, Braintree already does this and I think you'll see more and more payment providers doing it down the road, including Stripe. (I could be wrong, but I don't think so.)

Re: Our First $37,800 in Annual Recurring Revenue

#22

Post by danbruc » Thu, Sep 11, 2014, 5:34 PM UTC

Well, if the customer with the expired payment information is still using and valuing the service, he will soon realize that he needs to update his payment information without any outside intervention or he will lose access to the service. If the user no longer cares about the service and just forgot to cancel or was to lazy to do so, why not just let him go instead of continuing to sell him something he does no longer need?

UPDATE: I probably got the wrong first impression - I thought the service was kind of last resort if the user did not respond to the normal notifications that he will lose his service; I missed that you can completely outsource this.

Re: Our First $37,800 in Annual Recurring Revenue

#23

Post by cocoflunchy » Thu, Sep 11, 2014, 5:35 PM UTC

jd_114 wrote: post #13

aculver wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the feedback and sorry about the missing pricing link on the homepage. Definitely overdue to revamp the navigation and put a pricing link right up top there. I'll definitely chew on that free plan idea a bit.

So, what is the price? I guess I could signup for the trial and see, but don't want to burden if it's not something within the budget off the bat.

It's all here https://manage.churnbuster.io/pricing

Re: Our First $37,800 in Annual Recurring Revenue

#24

Post by jusben1369 » Thu, Sep 11, 2014, 5:37 PM UTC

michaelbuckbee wrote: post #19

dangrossman wrote: post #17

A bit tangential: If you have a problem with losing customers to expired credit cards and already have a good dunning process, talk to the guys at Spreedly about their "Card on File Updater". They're a payment gateway agnostic credit card vault, but one of the services they're trialing (you have to ask to join the beta right now) is automatic updating of expired credit card numbers. They have access to the bank syste…

Honestly, reading about how detailed ChurnBuster gets (they have an actual real live human doing white-labeled calls on their clients behalf) I feel like if anything Spreedly should hire them to handle things on behalf of their clients.

Spreedly here. That's not a bad idea although in reality the better idea might be for ChurnBuster to build on top of Spreedly and solve this problem across 70 gateways? That way too if Stripe ever rolled out something similar all your eggs aren't in one basket.

Re: Our First $37,800 in Annual Recurring Revenue

#25

Post by icelancer » Thu, Sep 11, 2014, 5:37 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #18

dangrossman wrote: post #17

A bit tangential: If you have a problem with losing customers to expired credit cards and already have a good dunning process, talk to the guys at Spreedly about their "Card on File Updater". They're a payment gateway agnostic credit card vault, but one of the services they're trialing (you have to ask to join the beta right now) is automatic updating of expired credit card numbers. They have access to the bank syste…

This has been in the works for a number of years now, but keep in mind that you are breaking an 'unwritten contract' with your customer that assumes that they get the option to renew the agreement when their card expires. People in general do not like to be charged for a service after the card expires and they have not explicitly authorized further payment. So better make sure this is written into your terms and cond…

I wholeheartedly agree. I would never expect this unless it was explicitly disclosed up front, and I got an email around expiry time.

Re: Our First $37,800 in Annual Recurring Revenue

#26

Post by itengelhardt » Thu, Sep 11, 2014, 5:39 PM UTC

danbruc wrote: post #22

Well, if the customer with the expired payment information is still using and valuing the service, he will soon realize that he needs to update his payment information without any outside intervention or he will lose access to the service. If the user no longer cares about the service and just forgot to cancel or was to lazy to do so, why not just let him go instead of continuing to sell him something he does no long…

Because that is not how people work. We forget things. Today I got a reminder that one of my hosting accounts expired. I happily put down the $90 for the account and even sent an email to my contact there, because loosing that account would be a major headache for me. I need that account, I just didn't remember to update my CC

Re: Our First $37,800 in Annual Recurring Revenue

#27

Post by trcull » Thu, Sep 11, 2014, 5:40 PM UTC

danbruc wrote: post #22

Well, if the customer with the expired payment information is still using and valuing the service, he will soon realize that he needs to update his payment information without any outside intervention or he will lose access to the service. If the user no longer cares about the service and just forgot to cancel or was to lazy to do so, why not just let him go instead of continuing to sell him something he does no long…

Couldn't disagree more. I've forgotten these things all the time and actually appreciate a reminder from the service that I need to do something about it. It's so much easier than keeping track of what's stored where and updating it

Re: Our First $37,800 in Annual Recurring Revenue

#28

Post by icelancer » Thu, Sep 11, 2014, 5:41 PM UTC

This is great and the pricing seems reasonable (and not too low, like tarsnap). I will be signing up once we launch our full online training courses. Our monthly revenues are around ~$150/month per user, so definitely worth it for us.

As someone else said, though, a free plan that is limited to a very small number of people might be helpful. I'd sign up for that with our small group of clients right now just to test and trust the service. 10-20 users or something would be enough for testing purposes but obviously not nearly enough that you are cannibalizing your product. Something to think about - since now I have to bookmark your site, remember that I need it in six months, and come back and sign up. Even though I KNOW it's something that will save me thousands of dollars per year.

Re: Our First $37,800 in Annual Recurring Revenue

#29

Post by zrail » Thu, Sep 11, 2014, 5:41 PM UTC

danbruc wrote: post #22

Well, if the customer with the expired payment information is still using and valuing the service, he will soon realize that he needs to update his payment information without any outside intervention or he will lose access to the service. If the user no longer cares about the service and just forgot to cancel or was to lazy to do so, why not just let him go instead of continuing to sell him something he does no long…

Think about a system that gives you, as a customer, piece of mind, but doesn't actively intrude on your life. For example, something like Pingdom. They tell you about problems with your systems but don't actively tell you anything if nothing is going wrong.

Let's assume you're happy not thinking about Pingdom when nothing is going wrong, and happy with their service when something does happen. Would you appreciate Pingdom silently ending your service when your credit card expires? Would you consider that good customer service? If they do contact you, would you consider it "sales" to get a gentle reminder?

Re: Our First $37,800 in Annual Recurring Revenue

#30

Post by jusben1369 » Thu, Sep 11, 2014, 5:43 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #18

dangrossman wrote: post #17

A bit tangential: If you have a problem with losing customers to expired credit cards and already have a good dunning process, talk to the guys at Spreedly about their "Card on File Updater". They're a payment gateway agnostic credit card vault, but one of the services they're trialing (you have to ask to join the beta right now) is automatic updating of expired credit card numbers. They have access to the bank syste…

This has been in the works for a number of years now, but keep in mind that you are breaking an 'unwritten contract' with your customer that assumes that they get the option to renew the agreement when their card expires. People in general do not like to be charged for a service after the card expires and they have not explicitly authorized further payment. So better make sure this is written into your terms and cond…

I think this is a really interesting topic where merchants and card users see it quite differently. For example, you usually sign up for an agreement to use a service. No where in there does it say that "you can cancel at anytime by just letting your card expire or having it stolen and replaced" The merchants really don't see any correlation between your need to pay and the current state of your card. And often they want you to actively cancel a service so as to remove any confusion around responsibilities owed.

Then you have some services where you can go either month to month or commit to a year long agreement and get a different price. Lastly, who enjoys losing a card and having to restart auto billing at their 10 favorite/required services?

I agree a lot of people by default think that if their card expires they're off to hook for paying for services and would be surprised that their service provider got an updated card from networks vs you. I'm just not sure it holds up though under closer thought/examination.