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No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

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Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#101

Post by laichzeit0 »

equoid wrote: post #98
rfrey wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not silly, at least not on the face of it to a complete duffer in nutritional science (me). Intuitively it seems like nutrition is a highly interdependent system of variables. The effect of a food on your body and blood chemistry might be completely different when consumed in combination with other foods. Or it might not. Testable! Give subjects the same combinations of foods (maybe scaled by body weight) a set…

I stand by my verdict. He was stating that ring fenced measurements are blown out of proportion because they do not reflect real life behaviour. I'd expect a citation otherwise I am happy to dismiss it as silly.

Well, in effect what you're arguing is that because something was tested in isolation, you feel justified in generalizing it to a situation it was not tested in.

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#102

Post by bitJericho »

lincolnq wrote: post #2

The state of nutrition science is pathetic. The science is conflicted over a simple question of fact -- whether or not a trivially measurable short-term effect occurs when you eat one of the most common food additives in the world. If we can't even answer THIS -- it seems like it should be incredibly easy to answer -- I don't see why people can claim anything at all about diets and macronutrients. Nutrition science n…

We know a lot about nutrition and healthy eating. You shouldn't believe everything you hear. Go talk to a dietician.

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#103

Post by dreamfactory2 »

svsaraf wrote: post #50

I'm a medical student who actually read the paper this article refers to. I would be very careful trying to draw conclusions from a study like this. I don't think many people in the healthcare community would be very surprised by it. 1) All clinically treated hypertensive patients were excluded - that means if you have kidney or vascular disease (hypertension) and are being treated for it, you aren't counted here. Do…

I have read that only a percentage of the population are sensitive to salt and that has been extrapolated to the whole population because a) it's quite hard/expensive to test, and b) you can theoretically still achieve reductions in average disease and mortality by limiting everybody's intake.

If that's true it's somewhat like making everybody wear glasses, whilst understating the risks to the folks who are actually sensitive.

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#104

Post by JoeAltmaier »

dreamfactory2 wrote: post #103
svsaraf wrote: post #50

I'm a medical student who actually read the paper this article refers to. I would be very careful trying to draw conclusions from a study like this. I don't think many people in the healthcare community would be very surprised by it. 1) All clinically treated hypertensive patients were excluded - that means if you have kidney or vascular disease (hypertension) and are being treated for it, you aren't counted here. Do…

I have read that only a percentage of the population are sensitive to salt and that has been extrapolated to the whole population because a) it's quite hard/expensive to test, and b) you can theoretically still achieve reductions in average disease and mortality by limiting everybody's intake. If that's true it's somewhat like making everybody wear glasses, whilst understating the risks to the folks who are actually…

But its simple to measure! Take your blood pressure; eat a lot of salty stuff; take your blood pressure.

This is how I learned that caffeine raises my blood pressure about 20 pts. One can of coke. Sigh. And every doctor I have says "oh that's not true, you'd have to drink like 35 cups of coffee". And I'd like to tell them "The more you talk, the less I respect your opinion". Off topic, but what is it about experts that make them spout off their book knowledge exactly when they're faced with contradicting evidence?

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#106

Post by illumen »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #104
dreamfactory2 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have read that only a percentage of the population are sensitive to salt and that has been extrapolated to the whole population because a) it's quite hard/expensive to test, and b) you can theoretically still achieve reductions in average disease and mortality by limiting everybody's intake. If that's true it's somewhat like making everybody wear glasses, whilst understating the risks to the folks who are actually…

But its simple to measure! Take your blood pressure; eat a lot of salty stuff; take your blood pressure. This is how I learned that caffeine raises my blood pressure about 20 pts. One can of coke. Sigh. And every doctor I have says "oh that's not true, you'd have to drink like 35 cups of coffee". And I'd like to tell them "The more you talk, the less I respect your opinion". Off topic, but what is it about experts th…

It's well known that caffeine causes a rise in blood pressure. That's one reason we have 300-400mg daily maximum level limit. I find this quite disturbing that your doctors didn't know this.

There's a lot of sugar in there too, which is also linked to high blood pressure.

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#107

Post by coldpie »

laichzeit0 wrote: post #101
equoid wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stand by my verdict. He was stating that ring fenced measurements are blown out of proportion because they do not reflect real life behaviour. I'd expect a citation otherwise I am happy to dismiss it as silly.

Well, in effect what you're arguing is that because something was tested in isolation, you feel justified in generalizing it to a situation it was not tested in.

Absent further evidence, that seems like a safe conclusion given the caveat that it hasn't actually been tested.

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#108

Post by zekenie »

svsaraf wrote: post #50

I'm a medical student who actually read the paper this article refers to. I would be very careful trying to draw conclusions from a study like this. I don't think many people in the healthcare community would be very surprised by it. 1) All clinically treated hypertensive patients were excluded - that means if you have kidney or vascular disease (hypertension) and are being treated for it, you aren't counted here. Do…

Hey doc-to-be: Am I correct that there is a very basic cellular bio reason that salt causes vasoconstriction? No one is questioning this?

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#110

Post by embolalia »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #104
dreamfactory2 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have read that only a percentage of the population are sensitive to salt and that has been extrapolated to the whole population because a) it's quite hard/expensive to test, and b) you can theoretically still achieve reductions in average disease and mortality by limiting everybody's intake. If that's true it's somewhat like making everybody wear glasses, whilst understating the risks to the folks who are actually…

But its simple to measure! Take your blood pressure; eat a lot of salty stuff; take your blood pressure. This is how I learned that caffeine raises my blood pressure about 20 pts. One can of coke. Sigh. And every doctor I have says "oh that's not true, you'd have to drink like 35 cups of coffee". And I'd like to tell them "The more you talk, the less I respect your opinion". Off topic, but what is it about experts th…

The issue is that plenty of people come in spouting complete nonsense that they "know" about their health, and they're usually wrong. It creates a default reaction. Imagine someone coming in and saying they can't send emails more than 500 miles. If you'd never heard [that story][1] before, you'd probably think they were being ridiculous. They may be absolutely right, but it sounds so different from what you know that you default to saying "Email really doesn't work that way, generally." It doesn't help that you're used to people coming in and saying that a virus put porn in their browser history.

[1]: http://www.ibiblio.org/harris/500milemail.html

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