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No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

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Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#71

Post by matthewmacleod »

aytekin wrote: post #66
autokad wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

while that may be true, for the mast majority of people that over simplification is fine. The high odds are that the fat person running next to me on the tread mill is over weight because they eat too much and do not move enough, not because of the 10 calories per hour I may burn in that work out due to what ever factors. if it were a small % of overweight people you might have a point, but the high % of overweight p…

Most of the population is carb intolerant. Unable to process sugar, their kidney turns it into fat and makes them feel starved at the same time. When they try to follow a balanced diet with lots of carbs, they get fatter and fatter. They try to consume less calories and they starve while creating new fat stores at the same time. For these people calorie calculation is the wrong thing. They should stop sugar consumpti…

Unable to process sugar, their kidney turns it into fat

Kidneys do not turn sugar into fat.

restrict carbs to a minimum and without a diet they will slowly lose the weight

That is a diet. They will lose weight if they consume fewer calories than they spend.

This nonsense is a great example of the awful ideas that people have about dietary science, and how poorly the truth is being communicated.

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#72

Post by kondro »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #39
huherto wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something that has always bother me is why poo is not part of the equation. Do feces have no calories ?

Feces is composed of material your body could not break down into usable nutrients, combined with materials your body is attempting to excrete.

Combined with approximately 50% by mass of bacteria.

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#73

Post by jonah »

enraged_camel wrote: post #51
tedunangst wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've decided to eat eggs every other day, to balance out the reports that they're good and bad.

I eat six eggs everyday and I haven't died yet. This clearly means science is wrong!

I'm hedging my bets, I eat only three a day. ;)

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#74

Post by Lost_BiomedE »

svsaraf wrote: post #50

I'm a medical student who actually read the paper this article refers to. I would be very careful trying to draw conclusions from a study like this. I don't think many people in the healthcare community would be very surprised by it. 1) All clinically treated hypertensive patients were excluded - that means if you have kidney or vascular disease (hypertension) and are being treated for it, you aren't counted here. Do…

Yep. For many years, I have thought the data has been pointing to potassium deficiency in normal folks. With kidney issues, just as you said. Even with a very healthy diet, the large majority miss the RDA in potassium. Good to see the medical professionals slowly turn towards this conclusion (slowly is likely good, BTW).

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#75

Post by Lost_BiomedE »

lincolnq wrote: post #2

The state of nutrition science is pathetic. The science is conflicted over a simple question of fact -- whether or not a trivially measurable short-term effect occurs when you eat one of the most common food additives in the world. If we can't even answer THIS -- it seems like it should be incredibly easy to answer -- I don't see why people can claim anything at all about diets and macronutrients. Nutrition science n…

It takes a while to change conclusions. The important thing is that they do change in the face of evidence. Personally, I do take some risks by changing early with what I consider sufficient evidence. Like Feynman said about the viscosity issue, many will steer towards what is currently the norm but slowly the data will correct.

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#76

Post by lutusp »

Lost_BiomedE wrote: post #75
lincolnq wrote: post #2

The state of nutrition science is pathetic. The science is conflicted over a simple question of fact -- whether or not a trivially measurable short-term effect occurs when you eat one of the most common food additives in the world. If we can't even answer THIS -- it seems like it should be incredibly easy to answer -- I don't see why people can claim anything at all about diets and macronutrients. Nutrition science n…

It takes a while to change conclusions. The important thing is that they do change in the face of evidence. Personally, I do take some risks by changing early with what I consider sufficient evidence. Like Feynman said about the viscosity issue, many will steer towards what is currently the norm but slowly the data will correct.

> ... but slowly the data will correct.

ITYM people's conclusions will slowly adjust to accumulating evidence. The entire process is ultimately steered by experimental evidence.

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#77

Post by laichzeit0 »

lincolnq wrote: post #2

The state of nutrition science is pathetic. The science is conflicted over a simple question of fact -- whether or not a trivially measurable short-term effect occurs when you eat one of the most common food additives in the world. If we can't even answer THIS -- it seems like it should be incredibly easy to answer -- I don't see why people can claim anything at all about diets and macronutrients. Nutrition science n…

I read something interesting about high GI vs low GI foods that I didn't know [1]. The TL;DR "The GI value of a food is determined when it’s eaten in isolation after an overnight fast. As in, this is how this food will affect your blood sugar when it’s the FIRST and ONLY thing you’re eating after a full night of not eating anything."

So the whole high GI is bad thing taken to the extreme e.g. clean eating, is probably completely blown out of proportion. It's measured in a very isolated ring-fenced setting that most likely doesn't apply to how you eat food anyway. Put bluntly: don't fret too much about eating white rice instead of brown rice (especially if you're counting macros).

http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/brown-rice-vs-white-rice/

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#78

Post by Lost_BiomedE »

coldcode wrote: post #3

Nutrition hasn't much since I took some nutritional chemistry classes in college decades ago. It's still a very complex system which is almost impossible to study because you can't easily isolate different the different bits from each other. The only thing even less settled is how the brain operates and stores information.

Yes and no, IMO. For the layman, yes, it seems like a mish-mash of failed conclusions. But, I think there is a solid direction that can be found with some knowledge. We punish those who push the boundaries too quickly. This bias really needs to be thrown out and instead solid and rigorous studies should be done and confirmed. Way too many will conclude for food studies/scientists out there right now. If you are not one, you meet a lot of hostility unless you are big name. Also, don't be too old as you will be labeled as jumping the shark.

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#79

Post by lutusp »

pbreit wrote: post #68
lutusp wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because correlations don't prove causation. One might want to argue that people who are hypertensive consume more salt as an effect, not a cause. Not to argue that that is proven either, only that it should be on the list of possibilities that merit investigation.

The headline used "association". Plus, the article seemed to indicate it was a causation, just not universal.

It's important to understand that, until a cause-effect relationship is explained instead of being merely measured, it's not science. A more complete explanation is here:

http://arachnoid.com/science_of_mind/

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#80

Post by Lost_BiomedE »

lutusp wrote: post #76
Lost_BiomedE wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes a while to change conclusions. The important thing is that they do change in the face of evidence. Personally, I do take some risks by changing early with what I consider sufficient evidence. Like Feynman said about the viscosity issue, many will steer towards what is currently the norm but slowly the data will correct.

> ... but slowly the data will correct. ITYM people's conclusions will slowly adjust to accumulating evidence. The entire process is ultimately steered by experimental evidence.

Right, but the evidence is affected by both past evidence and preconceived notions. Because of this, and outliers, it takes time.
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