Raise the Crime Rate (2012) • Hacker News Board

Re: Raise the Crime Rate (2012)

#11

Post by lallysingh » Thu, Sep 11, 2014, 2:29 AM UTC

jtheory wrote: post #7

angersock wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hire convicts, provide good jobs--and vote the bastards out.

Supporting your first suggestion -- what are the best ways to improve education opportunities for prisoners?

Put education in the prison? Maybe attach good grades to earlier release?

Re: Raise the Crime Rate (2012)

#12

Post by daveloyall » Thu, Sep 11, 2014, 2:45 AM UTC

Thank you, Mr. Glazek, for the concept of hyperhell.

Re: Raise the Crime Rate (2012)

#13

Post by hammerzeit » Thu, Sep 11, 2014, 2:54 AM UTC

I applaud this article for challenging the received wisdom in libertarian communities that our prison problems are a function of drug laws -- indeed, if there's one thing this article does well, it's establishing that we cannot solve our problems solely by dealing with nonviolent crime.

That said, this article makes a large number of controversial claims that it fails to support on anything other than a rhetorical level, including:

* The moral crisis in prisons is so severe that effectively any social burden should be borne for it to be fixed.

* In time, the increased public money from eliminating prisons will turn violent felons into peaceful individuals.

* The differences between the US and UK's social situations is a function of our prisons.

Ultimately, this article's vigor outweighs its coherence; it seems to oscillate between making ontological claims and moral claims, between libertarian claims and authoritarian claims (note the advocacy for more CCTV).

Re: Raise the Crime Rate (2012)

#14

Post by jsdalton » Thu, Sep 11, 2014, 3:01 AM UTC

Perhaps surprisingly -- or perhaps not -- a strong plurality of Americans actually think prison life is "too easy": https://today.yougov.com/news/2014/07/21/many-americans-thin...

Re: Raise the Crime Rate (2012)

#15

Post by curlyfrosurfer » Thu, Sep 11, 2014, 3:40 AM UTC

Are there any resources to help alleviate this problem? A very close associate of mine has just been put away for a white collar offense to a private prison black hole, and I hope that noone has to suffer like he has

Re: Raise the Crime Rate (2012)

#16

Post by Zigurd » Thu, Sep 11, 2014, 4:07 AM UTC

jackpirate wrote: post #2

This all makes me so sad. I wish I knew how to help change the situation.

If you sit on a jury, don't vote to convict on drug "crimes" or other prison-stuffing non-violent offences short of fraud and larceny on an epic scale.

Re: Raise the Crime Rate (2012)

#17

Post by pokpokpok » Thu, Sep 11, 2014, 4:41 AM UTC

hammerzeit wrote: post #13

I applaud this article for challenging the received wisdom in libertarian communities that our prison problems are a function of drug laws -- indeed, if there's one thing this article does well, it's establishing that we cannot solve our problems solely by dealing with nonviolent crime. That said, this article makes a large number of controversial claims that it fails to support on anything other than a rhetorical le…

I agree with your other points, but I'd like to point out that there's absolutely nothing wrong with supporting multiple ideas that are usually found in different ideological cages

Re: Raise the Crime Rate (2012)

#18

Post by jqm » Thu, Sep 11, 2014, 4:48 AM UTC

The article had me until about 3/4 of the way through. (still a good article).

We can't, and we won't, abolish the prison system in the foreseeable future. What we can and what we should do is enact some drastic reforms of our criminal justice system. The old guard needs to be removed from it's duties almost to the man. The CJ system in the US has become an expensive, shameful joke and without a doubt, causes far more harm than good to our society.

Re: Raise the Crime Rate (2012)

#19

Post by whiddershins » Thu, Sep 11, 2014, 5:02 AM UTC

hammerzeit wrote: post #13

I applaud this article for challenging the received wisdom in libertarian communities that our prison problems are a function of drug laws -- indeed, if there's one thing this article does well, it's establishing that we cannot solve our problems solely by dealing with nonviolent crime. That said, this article makes a large number of controversial claims that it fails to support on anything other than a rhetorical le…

It is not inherently authoritarian to have cctvs. It can just as easily be an anarchist or libertarian concept. It really depends on who pays for and controls the cameras, who has access to the recordings, and what punishments can be given to those recorded while committing a crime.

Re: Raise the Crime Rate (2012)

#20

Post by Malician » Thu, Sep 11, 2014, 7:12 AM UTC

Zigurd wrote: post #16

jackpirate wrote: post #2

This all makes me so sad. I wish I knew how to help change the situation.

If you sit on a jury, don't vote to convict on drug "crimes" or other prison-stuffing non-violent offences short of fraud and larceny on an epic scale.

I feel that the core argument of the article is that we cannot fix the problem through non-violent inmates. There are not enough of them. The biggest problem is with violent inmates who none of us really want back out in society; the problem is that the damage caused by imprisoning them is so much larger than the improvement experienced by everyone else.