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Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

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Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#61

Post by dllthomas »

stusmall wrote: post #47
bane wrote: post #13

I'm one of those drivers who hates sharing roadways with bikers. It's not that I have to share, but between slowing traffic down, pure safety concerns for the biker (who I as the automobile driver am responsible for in the case of an accident) and the generally shitty entitled attitude lots of bike riders seem to have (probably earned from dealing with irritated drivers like me) I get my hackles raised every time I s…

>Bikes aren't automobiles no matter how much we debate about it The road isn't just for cars. Its more dangerous for us to ride on the sidewalk and put pedestrians in danger. The road isn't for just bikes or cars, its for us to share. Its just how it is. For every entitled bicyclist you see on the road, we've seen plenty of awful drivers. I live in one of the most bike friendly cities in the country and still get yel…

The parent comment seems to be endorsing provision of dedicated space to bikers. The fact that "biker on road" is safer for everyone than "biker on sidewalk" isn't any sort of an argument against that.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#62

Post by keepper »

soperj wrote: post #32
bane wrote: post #13

I'm one of those drivers who hates sharing roadways with bikers. It's not that I have to share, but between slowing traffic down, pure safety concerns for the biker (who I as the automobile driver am responsible for in the case of an accident) and the generally shitty entitled attitude lots of bike riders seem to have (probably earned from dealing with irritated drivers like me) I get my hackles raised every time I s…

I'm one of those bikers who hates sharing roadways with cars. It's not that I have to share, but between taking up so much of the road, pure safety concerns for bikers(since automobile drivers win every single colition) and generally shitty entitled attitude lots of car drivers seem to have (most likely because there are more of them so they think they own the road) I get my hackles raised every time I see one on the…

Except I pay for the roads.. you know.. registration, taxes on gas, taxes on purchase of the car, etc etc...

But hey, you're welcome to pay a little for the roads too ;)

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#63

Post by melanarchy »

apendleton wrote: post #59

The results here are impressive, but the particular example they show in the last picture seems pretty dangerous, unless I'm misunderstanding. It seems like it places left-turning car traffic to the right of cyclist through-traffic, creating an opportunity for "left-hooks." Many jurisdictions use mixing zones instead: http://www.streetsblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/dc_mix... (Unless there's a separate signal ph…

Separate signals for bikers in about 80% of these intersections, the rest have signage telling drivers to yield to cyclists before turning.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#64

Post by cdnsteve »

bane wrote: post #13

I'm one of those drivers who hates sharing roadways with bikers. It's not that I have to share, but between slowing traffic down, pure safety concerns for the biker (who I as the automobile driver am responsible for in the case of an accident) and the generally shitty entitled attitude lots of bike riders seem to have (probably earned from dealing with irritated drivers like me) I get my hackles raised every time I s…

Agree with this completely.

What I still don't understand is everyone is ok with someone going 15 mph or less, only wearing a helmet, with no license or understanding of traffic. Cyclists should pass a road license just like motorbikes to be on the roads IMO. Bike lanes, fine, no license. Get on the road with cars, you better understand the risks. Especially when you go 6 cyclists wide and absolutely refuse to move over or go single profile. That's just ignorance.

However, governments are blocking electric cars entirely that pass safety ratings and require valid drivers licenses from entering the market. Go figure that one out. Instead of putting more people on bikes why aren't electric cars allowed on the roads in cities?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZENN

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#65

Post by dllthomas »

turar wrote: post #58
bane wrote: post #13

I'm one of those drivers who hates sharing roadways with bikers. It's not that I have to share, but between slowing traffic down, pure safety concerns for the biker (who I as the automobile driver am responsible for in the case of an accident) and the generally shitty entitled attitude lots of bike riders seem to have (probably earned from dealing with irritated drivers like me) I get my hackles raised every time I s…

As a motorist who sees cyclists daily, I have yet to see a cyclist obey a stop sign. I see blatant disregard for stop signs every single day. Same thing for red lights -- I see cyclists routinely disregard red lights, unless crossing a busy road, where disregarding a red light will certainly get them killed.

Where are you located? In Oakland, I certainly see some bicyclists break the rules, but I probably see more abiding by them. (And I see cars and pedestrians break rules, as well...)

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#66

Post by mikeash »

mindslight wrote: post #40
msandford wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bikes aren't automobiles no matter how much we debate about it. They shouldn't be sharing the road with cars. While I understand the sentiment you need to understand that cyclists are put in a pretty awkward legal situation themselves. They exist in a no-mans-land between pedestrians and vehicles. Sidewalks are often too narrow, too close to blind corners, etc for safety. They're often VERY bumpy. At 2mph a sidewal…

> The police tend to look at cyclists the way you do, and many times don't find fault with drivers even if cyclists are KILLED much less injured or have their bikes destroyed. I mostly drive these days, but I'm no friend of cars in general or police for that matter. However it's important to keep in mind that injustices occur both ways, and forming blanket statements is a great way to end up just talking past one ano…

The difference is that drivers are killing cyclists without consequences, while cyclists aren't killing drivers, because it's not physically possible.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#67

Post by bane »

soperj wrote: post #32
bane wrote: post #13

I'm one of those drivers who hates sharing roadways with bikers. It's not that I have to share, but between slowing traffic down, pure safety concerns for the biker (who I as the automobile driver am responsible for in the case of an accident) and the generally shitty entitled attitude lots of bike riders seem to have (probably earned from dealing with irritated drivers like me) I get my hackles raised every time I s…

I'm one of those bikers who hates sharing roadways with cars. It's not that I have to share, but between taking up so much of the road, pure safety concerns for bikers(since automobile drivers win every single colition) and generally shitty entitled attitude lots of car drivers seem to have (most likely because there are more of them so they think they own the road) I get my hackles raised every time I see one on the…

Well, you are aware that the roads were built for cars right? Would you walk in the middle of the road? No, because that's idiotic and stupid. But sit on a few pounds of rubber and tubed aluminum, travel only slightly faster than the same moronic pedestrian and now it's a smart commuting idea?

You've chosen to go out and share the roads that were built for cars and decided for every driver (who are actually entitled to be on the road in their cars) on the same road as you that they're responsible for your safety. And then you've decided to inconvenience every single one of them by clumsily pedaling you and your contraption into a position where you are blocking cars from traveling at the designated speed the road was designed and built for.

In no other social interaction is any such similar selfish behavior even remotely tolerated.

I mean, imagine I decided to take up a hobby called "being a cat" and then I come to your workplace and just decided to sit on your desk, and block your keyboard, take over your chair, push you out of queues and otherwise disrupt what you need to be doing. But it's okay, I'm entitled to do this because I randomly picked my hobby and don't you dare be cross with me when I knock your monitor on the floor and prevent you from doing your work.

In fact, I have a better hobby. It's called "tack throwing". I'm going to go out to my local bike trails and take this hobby up. Where I throw handfuls of thumbtacks in front of all the bikers and fuck them because that's my hobby now and they shouldn't be riding their bikes on my tack throwing field.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#68

Post by everyone »

fidlefodl wrote: post #48
soperj wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of those bikers who hates sharing roadways with cars. It's not that I have to share, but between taking up so much of the road, pure safety concerns for bikers(since automobile drivers win every single colition) and generally shitty entitled attitude lots of car drivers seem to have (most likely because there are more of them so they think they own the road) I get my hackles raised every time I see one on the…

> I see more people driving break the law every day while driving then I've ever seen bikers do in my entire life. People are jerks regardless of what they use to commute with. I don't think he (or many) would claim otherwise. The issue isn't the people who ride bikes, but rather the mode they choose to travel with and the impact it has on your drive. Bikers cause all sorts of added danger to both themselves, and you…

Various car related taxes and levies dont even begin to finanace the cost of road building and maintainance. Most of that comes from VAT and income tax.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#69

Post by recursive »

keepper wrote: post #62
soperj wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of those bikers who hates sharing roadways with cars. It's not that I have to share, but between taking up so much of the road, pure safety concerns for bikers(since automobile drivers win every single colition) and generally shitty entitled attitude lots of car drivers seem to have (most likely because there are more of them so they think they own the road) I get my hackles raised every time I see one on the…

Except I pay for the roads.. you know.. registration, taxes on gas, taxes on purchase of the car, etc etc... But hey, you're welcome to pay a little for the roads too ;)

Most bicyclists pay all those things as well. Additionally, in many states, roads are mostly paid for by other sources.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#70

Post by mikeash »

bane wrote: post #28
shiftpgdn wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A cyclist is just a brief inconvenience. It's the same as a school bus or slow driver in a lane requiring you to go around. Every bike on the road is one less car causing traffic. It's crazy to want infrastructure for JUST cyclists when the road is a perfectly good way to travel.

The road is not a perfectly good place for bikes to travel. It's like saying the conveyor belt in an automated slaughter house is a good place to dance because it's flat and doesn't move too fast or that pedestrians should just walk down the middle of the road because it's not a bad walking surface. The biggest possible problem is that as the auto driver you become responsible for any bike rider you come into contact…

Heh, "literally dozens of miles", that's hilarious.

How many thousands of miles of streets do you have locally?

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