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Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

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Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#41

Post by Pxtl »

bane wrote: post #28
shiftpgdn wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A cyclist is just a brief inconvenience. It's the same as a school bus or slow driver in a lane requiring you to go around. Every bike on the road is one less car causing traffic. It's crazy to want infrastructure for JUST cyclists when the road is a perfectly good way to travel.

The road is not a perfectly good place for bikes to travel. It's like saying the conveyor belt in an automated slaughter house is a good place to dance because it's flat and doesn't move too fast or that pedestrians should just walk down the middle of the road because it's not a bad walking surface. The biggest possible problem is that as the auto driver you become responsible for any bike rider you come into contact…

> The biggest possible problem is that as the auto driver you become responsible for any bike rider you come into contact with because they are unprotected regardless of the circumstances of the contact. I didn't ask them to get on the road with me, but I'll sure as hell be held responsible for their decision if something happens.

If there were only cyclists on the road, the worst accident would be a few broken bones. You chose to bring a potentially lethal device onto the roads, of course it's your responsibility. If I juggle chainsaws in a crowded plaza, I don't get to blame the guy who bumped into me for flinging chainsaws into people.

> More importantly, as a tax payer, I've helped fund literally dozens of miles of really nice dedicated paved and marked bike only trails, complete with parking and overpasses, tunnels and signals at busy intersections. There is literally no excuse for them to play "Tour de France" on the same road I'm trying to get to work on.

Try it. You might be surprised that these bike lanes have dead ends or obstacles or just astonishingly crappy terrain.

And don't give me the "taxpayer" line, an astronomical amount of cash is spent on roadways and expressways over and above any gas taxes or fees. Complaining about the small amount spent on bikes just makes you seem extremely petty.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#42

Post by bjterry »

dleibovic wrote: post #14
kazinator wrote: post #4

The "before and after" picture at the bottom of the page shows that both "before" and "after" have bike lanes. The bike lane has grown from 5' to 6" and is separated by a buffer, but it was there before. What has sped up traffic is the creation of left turn pockets in the parking lane. But these could have been created in the "before" situation, by carving them out of the 8" curb-side parking lane. So, the claim that…

I agree with you that the traffic speed improvements being due to the bike lanes is poorly supported. But still, this shows that there is room for intersection/street design improvements that do not slow down cars while making it safer for bikes.

I didn't consider this thought until reading your comment, but this is a potential example of Bastiat's "Seen and Unseen."[1] By re-engineering the roads with bikers in mind, they have created slightly faster roads for cars apparently by accident. But all of engineering is about tradeoffs, so presumably there would have been some way to make traffic even better if they didn't have to consider the fate of bicyclists at all. The authors seem to be portraying this as if it's something of a free lunch (although obviously reengineering the road has some monetary cost), but it's not. If they had spent that same money on an engineering effort directed solely at automobile traffic, they could have done better by drivers (again, presumably).

Of course, if they had actually drawn a lot of people to use bikes instead of cars thus reducing traffic, then it could be argued that engineering for bicyclists advantages drivers directly, but that doesn't seem to have happened.

1: The Seen is the result of the engineering effort that they undertook. The Unseen is the result of an alternative engineering effort with different goals.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#43

Post by LaikaF »

Pxtl wrote: post #36
bane wrote: post #13

I'm one of those drivers who hates sharing roadways with bikers. It's not that I have to share, but between slowing traffic down, pure safety concerns for the biker (who I as the automobile driver am responsible for in the case of an accident) and the generally shitty entitled attitude lots of bike riders seem to have (probably earned from dealing with irritated drivers like me) I get my hackles raised every time I s…

My list of pet peeves As a cyclist: motorists As a motorist: cyclists And MSBuild. But yeah, studies have found that when it comes to cyclists, there are three categories: Die-hard fearless ninjas that would bike through an active firefight, bike-haters that would never bike in a million years, and casual cyclists who would bike if they felt it were safe. Protected bike lanes are they key to getting #3 on the road.

As a cyclist: motorists, pedestrians, motorcycle riders(You are motorized you don't go in the bike lane)

As a motorist: cyclists, motorcycle riders (If your mode of transport requires my windows to shake for safety stop using it)

As a computer user: Stupid ui decisions

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#44

Post by apendleton »

bane wrote: post #13

I'm one of those drivers who hates sharing roadways with bikers. It's not that I have to share, but between slowing traffic down, pure safety concerns for the biker (who I as the automobile driver am responsible for in the case of an accident) and the generally shitty entitled attitude lots of bike riders seem to have (probably earned from dealing with irritated drivers like me) I get my hackles raised every time I s…

So you think your particular mode of transport should have exclusive use of a public right of way that everyone owns and everyone's tax dollars pay to build and maintain, but it's cyclists that have the shitty entitled attitude?

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#45

Post by nether »

Pxtl wrote: post #36
bane wrote: post #13

I'm one of those drivers who hates sharing roadways with bikers. It's not that I have to share, but between slowing traffic down, pure safety concerns for the biker (who I as the automobile driver am responsible for in the case of an accident) and the generally shitty entitled attitude lots of bike riders seem to have (probably earned from dealing with irritated drivers like me) I get my hackles raised every time I s…

My list of pet peeves As a cyclist: motorists As a motorist: cyclists And MSBuild. But yeah, studies have found that when it comes to cyclists, there are three categories: Die-hard fearless ninjas that would bike through an active firefight, bike-haters that would never bike in a million years, and casual cyclists who would bike if they felt it were safe. Protected bike lanes are they key to getting #3 on the road.

> Die-hard fearless ninjas that would bike through an active firefight, bike-haters that would never bike in a million years, and casual cyclists who would bike if they felt it were safe.

And casual cyclists who are fearless/clueless. I'm talking the about the flip-flop wearing soccer moms pedaling their beach cruisers without helmet or lights down the PCH at night. Truly nuts.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#46

Post by revelation »

bane wrote: post #13

I'm one of those drivers who hates sharing roadways with bikers. It's not that I have to share, but between slowing traffic down, pure safety concerns for the biker (who I as the automobile driver am responsible for in the case of an accident) and the generally shitty entitled attitude lots of bike riders seem to have (probably earned from dealing with irritated drivers like me) I get my hackles raised every time I s…

Your comments in this thread strongly suggest you are unsuitable for driving cars on public roads. The law rightfully places significant burdens on those operating multi-ton vehicles in the close proximity of pedestrians and cyclists. It also recognizes bicycles as proper vehicles, giving them the right to ride on roads, at the speed and position the situation calls for.

I sincerely hope you won't ever hit anyone. This kind of attitude will do you no favors.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#47

Post by stusmall »

bane wrote: post #13

I'm one of those drivers who hates sharing roadways with bikers. It's not that I have to share, but between slowing traffic down, pure safety concerns for the biker (who I as the automobile driver am responsible for in the case of an accident) and the generally shitty entitled attitude lots of bike riders seem to have (probably earned from dealing with irritated drivers like me) I get my hackles raised every time I s…

>Bikes aren't automobiles no matter how much we debate about it

The road isn't just for cars. Its more dangerous for us to ride on the sidewalk and put pedestrians in danger. The road isn't for just bikes or cars, its for us to share. Its just how it is. For every entitled bicyclist you see on the road, we've seen plenty of awful drivers. I live in one of the most bike friendly cities in the country and still get yelled at by passing trucks or have people swerve at me because they think its funny.

There are horrible people out there on all different types of modes of transit. Even if you are irritated be kind to us. There are a lot of us out there who obey traffic laws and use signal when we ride. In the words of the great philosophers, "Be excellent to each other."

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#48

Post by fidlefodl »

soperj wrote: post #32
bane wrote: post #13

I'm one of those drivers who hates sharing roadways with bikers. It's not that I have to share, but between slowing traffic down, pure safety concerns for the biker (who I as the automobile driver am responsible for in the case of an accident) and the generally shitty entitled attitude lots of bike riders seem to have (probably earned from dealing with irritated drivers like me) I get my hackles raised every time I s…

I'm one of those bikers who hates sharing roadways with cars. It's not that I have to share, but between taking up so much of the road, pure safety concerns for bikers(since automobile drivers win every single colition) and generally shitty entitled attitude lots of car drivers seem to have (most likely because there are more of them so they think they own the road) I get my hackles raised every time I see one on the…

> I see more people driving break the law every day while driving then I've ever seen bikers do in my entire life. People are jerks regardless of what they use to commute with.

I don't think he (or many) would claim otherwise. The issue isn't the people who ride bikes, but rather the mode they choose to travel with and the impact it has on your drive. Bikers cause all sorts of added danger to both themselves, and you as a driver.

If you have a moment of human error in car-v-car, you're very likely to have both parties walk away from the incident. You call your insurance(s), your rates go up a bit, and your life moves on. Accidents are very, very common.

Repeat this same scenario in car-v-biker, and the odds quickly swing towards it being a life endangering accident. It's just a step away from hitting a pedestrian.

I don't dislike bikers because they slow me down or anything like that. I dislike them because of the likely increase in severity for almost all car-v-biker accidents.

edit: Interesting, seems i am getting downvotes for my opinion. Care to explain your thoughts? I can't imagine you (downvoters) feel that car-v-biker is an equal risk compared to car-v-car, do you?

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#49

Post by agumonkey »

fumar wrote: post #15
dominotw wrote: post #3

Having 2 of my coworkers killed this year on their bike( both by drunk drivers), I wont venture out on a bike until all my path is a completely protected from cars.

Sorry to hear! As a fellow Chicago cyclist, I recommend using bike lanes as much as possible. I will go out of my way to stay on designated bike lanes. Also, the Lake path is useful during the work week. But, throughout the years, I have noticed drunk driving does rise on the weekend nights. I do my best to stay off the streets then.

On bike lanes security weighs on the bikers, since pedestrian will cross or even walk on them, you're always worried about some hidden kid running wild.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#50

Post by heydenberk »

bane wrote: post #13

I'm one of those drivers who hates sharing roadways with bikers. It's not that I have to share, but between slowing traffic down, pure safety concerns for the biker (who I as the automobile driver am responsible for in the case of an accident) and the generally shitty entitled attitude lots of bike riders seem to have (probably earned from dealing with irritated drivers like me) I get my hackles raised every time I s…

>> (who I as the automobile driver am responsible for in the case of an accident)

This is factually untrue, as much as I'd like to be so.

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