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The Risk in Sending Your Startup’s Technology Offshore

karllhughes.com

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Re: The Risk in Sending Your Startup’s Technology Offshore

#11

Post by dave_sullivan »

Non-technical founder is a weird catch all. You never really hear about non technical founders in other industries, right? You don't start a construction company and say "Well, I don't know anything about construction but I can draw pictures of buildings, so I'll just hire someone that does (barring for a moment that I lack the knowledge about the profession that would allow me to judge talent in the first place)."

That said, there isn't something magic about geography that makes people suddenly better at programming. Good programmers live all over, you've just got to know enough about your business to be able to judge talent based on more than geography or color.

One rule I've found useful: don't ask people to do things you can't (potentially badly) do yourself.

Re: The Risk in Sending Your Startup’s Technology Offshore

#12

Post by blueatlas »

Always remember - outsource developers have "no skin in the game" and thus will likely not make that little bit of extra effort that pays off long term. This can be horribly frustrating when you care about such things as efficient communications, consistent code style, or code that has even a remote chance at long term maintenance. Naming (classes, variables, functions) is everything, and don't expect much here. Having even in-house contractors gives you a chance directing them toward better quality software.

Expect to refactor everything before it makes it to your baseline. Use what they produce as a starting point, not the end product.

Re: The Risk in Sending Your Startup’s Technology Offshore

#13

Post by jacquesm »

dave_sullivan wrote: post #11

Non-technical founder is a weird catch all. You never really hear about non technical founders in other industries, right? You don't start a construction company and say "Well, I don't know anything about construction but I can draw pictures of buildings, so I'll just hire someone that does (barring for a moment that I lack the knowledge about the profession that would allow me to judge talent in the first place)." T…

It's mostly a reflection of the ability of the non-technical people to evaluate their prospective partners. Good non-technical people will be able to compensate with effort what they lack in initial ability. You don't need to know enough to do the job, you need to know enough to evaluate whether the other party is able to do the job (and to check up on them as things progress).

Almost by definition this means that they will need a (very) competent project manager on the side of the hiring party. Alas, this is often also outsourced and that's when you get interesting phone calls at 4 am.

Re: The Risk in Sending Your Startup’s Technology Offshore

#14

Post by dccoolgai »

dave_sullivan wrote: post #11

Non-technical founder is a weird catch all. You never really hear about non technical founders in other industries, right? You don't start a construction company and say "Well, I don't know anything about construction but I can draw pictures of buildings, so I'll just hire someone that does (barring for a moment that I lack the knowledge about the profession that would allow me to judge talent in the first place)." T…

  "well, I don't know anything about construction but I can draw pictures of buildings"
That's called an architect... and they do start companies that produce buildings. Just like I'm sure there are a lot of construction guys that hire an architect. The idea does not necessarily have to be tightly coupled with the execution. It can certainly make things easier and the road to startup hell is paved with people who had an idea without any concept of how it can/should be implemented - but they can still be successful under the right conditions.

Re: The Risk in Sending Your Startup’s Technology Offshore

#15

Post by zaqokm »

The majority of these points relate to all outsourcing development whether if it's onshore or offshore. In fact it applies for in house development.

Cheaper does not mean bad code and bad practices, and more expensive does not mean better code and better practices. The simple fact is that someone has to take responsibility and implement stuff right.

> 1. It’s extremely difficult to judge the quality of outsourced work without your own local engineer

It can be difficult measure any quality if you do not have the knowledge to do it. As this article is aimed at the "non-tech" founder, I have to question how that person would know good quality code or bad quality code without a technical advisor.

> 2. Prepare to work some odd hours and deal with communication issues

Some outsourcing companies work the hours of the client. If not then planning just needs to be done to organise communication. Even in the US (I am not in the US), there are different time zones which need to be compensated for.

However I do realise a 12 hour difference can be difficult.

> 3. Things will get lost when you transition to a permanent local team

Bring on any new developer to an established codebase and they are going to need time to catch up.

> 4. Each feature can become a line item in your technical debt

This point does not even make sense. Technical debt is not related to offshoring it is related to poor design and implementation.

> 5. Hiring and retaining local engineers could be more difficult

Well this might be true, but then again it would probably be true of any bad codebase whether developed in house or outsourced. I am sure there are in-house projects with massive God Objects also.

Re: The Risk in Sending Your Startup’s Technology Offshore

#16

Post by willvarfar »

onion2k wrote: post #8

Nobody wants to come into a team with five overseas developers, two servers, and no version control, but I’ve been there before. If the article author has been there before, wouldn't that mean someone does want to come in to a team like that?

Maybe they did it for money not love? That the author did it doesn't mean they wanted to do it.

Re: The Risk in Sending Your Startup’s Technology Offshore

#17

Post by pessimizer »

dccoolgai wrote: post #14
dave_sullivan wrote: post #11

Non-technical founder is a weird catch all. You never really hear about non technical founders in other industries, right? You don't start a construction company and say "Well, I don't know anything about construction but I can draw pictures of buildings, so I'll just hire someone that does (barring for a moment that I lack the knowledge about the profession that would allow me to judge talent in the first place)." T…

"well, I don't know anything about construction but I can draw pictures of buildings" That's called an architect... and they do start companies that produce buildings. Just like I'm sure there are a lot of construction guys that hire an architect. The idea does not necessarily have to be tightly coupled with the execution. It can certainly make things easier and the road to startup hell is paved with people who had a…

Architects know something about construction.

Re: The Risk in Sending Your Startup’s Technology Offshore

#18

Post by kcmarshall »

I don't think you can over-emphasize the challenges in communication with off-shore teams. I have worked with several in corporate IT and just reaching a minimal baseline of understanding has proven difficult.

Some of this is basic talking and listening; phone conferences will suck! Think about your typical (dysfunctional) phone conf and then slash the quality of the phone line/Skype connection. Add in the variable accents of the offshore team. Their English is 1000% better than my command of their language: if I can't understand what they say and everything has to be repeated or translated by a co-worker, meetings slow to a crawl.

You will run into cultural differences in communication as well. The off shore folks want to do your work and they have the can-do attitude of most IT workers. They may indicate understanding when that isn't really the case. They aren't going to be able to casually wander by your desk and raise questions later so you are more likely to get stuck with their assumptions. This has happened even when we have brought off-shore developers to our offices for face to face meetings.

Finally, I have found that we are often unprepared to send work to a developer in a coherent manner. That will lead to rework, increased cost and even more communication overhead as you painfully hammer out your actual requirements.

Re: The Risk in Sending Your Startup’s Technology Offshore

#19

Post by jacquesm »

pessimizer wrote: post #17
dccoolgai wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"well, I don't know anything about construction but I can draw pictures of buildings" That's called an architect... and they do start companies that produce buildings. Just like I'm sure there are a lot of construction guys that hire an architect. The idea does not necessarily have to be tightly coupled with the execution. It can certainly make things easier and the road to startup hell is paved with people who had a…

Architects know something about construction.

That they do, but they typically farm out the engineering component to an engineering company. This then determines the constraints within which the architect will have to work with respect to design.

There is a hybrid field called 'architectural engineering'.

Re: The Risk in Sending Your Startup’s Technology Offshore

#20

Post by [deleted] »

dccoolgai wrote: post #14
dave_sullivan wrote: post #11

Non-technical founder is a weird catch all. You never really hear about non technical founders in other industries, right? You don't start a construction company and say "Well, I don't know anything about construction but I can draw pictures of buildings, so I'll just hire someone that does (barring for a moment that I lack the knowledge about the profession that would allow me to judge talent in the first place)." T…

"well, I don't know anything about construction but I can draw pictures of buildings" That's called an architect... and they do start companies that produce buildings. Just like I'm sure there are a lot of construction guys that hire an architect. The idea does not necessarily have to be tightly coupled with the execution. It can certainly make things easier and the road to startup hell is paved with people who had a…

[deleted]
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