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Ask HN: Why is that 10+ years experience folks struggle to find work

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Re: Ask HN: Why is that 10+ years experience folks struggle to find work

#21

Post by janbernhart »

Overall in development I don't see problem for 'experienced' people to find (good) jobs. I do see problem for people who have only mastered the tools, method, paradigms etc that were common when they graduated 20 years ago.

(though irony has it that some mainfraim experts can earn a fortune because nobody has that skill any more while some companies do still need it.)

As for cultural fit; you'll see youngsters in t-shirts getting rejected at bigger corporates, and 'older' developers in suits getting rejected at startups. Not necessarily an age thing on a meta level. (or is the question specifically aimed at employment at startups? In that case, ignore my comment above).

Re: Ask HN: Why is that 10+ years experience folks struggle to find work

#22

Post by facorreia »

csmdev wrote: post #19
facorreia wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, there's a difference between having 10 years of experience and having 1 year of experience repeated 10 times doing the same thing. Me, personally, I enjoy learning a lot and I get restless if I don't feel I'm developing my skills and keeping current.

You do realize that you're basically dismissing experts because they specialize instead of learning the basics for another technology each year. Or has one year become enough to be an expert on something?

Experts learn.

Re: Ask HN: Why is that 10+ years experience folks struggle to find work

#23

Post by collyw »

csmdev wrote: post #20
hcho wrote: post #15

I suspect most 10+ years experience guys are actually 10 * 1 year experience guys. When you have someone like that in front of you in an interview, it is quite difficult to look past the fact that the person has no respect to his job.

So people that specialize in a field and become experts have no respect for the job. But the ones that hop around each year based on what's "hot" are better.

I work with 10 * 1 year guys at work - my team leader. I know more languages than him, and I still write better SQL than him (one of the things he does know). Making an effort to learn something new doesn't stop you specialising in other areas. Also sticking to a one set of technologies doesn't mean you will automatically get good at them.

Re: Ask HN: Why is that 10+ years experience folks struggle to find work

#24

Post by csmdev »

facorreia wrote: post #22
csmdev wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that you're basically dismissing experts because they specialize instead of learning the basics for another technology each year. Or has one year become enough to be an expert on something?

Experts learn.

Learn what? A new thing every year? How do they become experts then?

Just because you learn a new language or technology doesn't mean you become better at problem solving. It just means that you can solve problems using a different tool.

Re: Ask HN: Why is that 10+ years experience folks struggle to find work

#25

Post by csmdev »

collyw wrote: post #23
csmdev wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So people that specialize in a field and become experts have no respect for the job. But the ones that hop around each year based on what's "hot" are better.

I work with 10 * 1 year guys at work - my team leader. I know more languages than him, and I still write better SQL than him (one of the things he does know). Making an effort to learn something new doesn't stop you specialising in other areas. Also sticking to a one set of technologies doesn't mean you will automatically get good at them.

Did you stop and think why he is the team leader and not you? Maybe having a deeper understanding of something is more important than playing with multiple things at once.

Always switching technologies will get you only basic knowledge in each of them. Going past the surface requires daily use and years of constant evolution. That's how you become an expert in something. Deeper understanding. Not broader.

Re: Ask HN: Why is that 10+ years experience folks struggle to find work

#26

Post by themonk »

csmdev wrote: post #24
facorreia wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Experts learn.

Learn what? A new thing every year? How do they become experts then? Just because you learn a new language or technology doesn't mean you become better at problem solving. It just means that you can solve problems using a different tool.

They become expert in problem solving.

Re: Ask HN: Why is that 10+ years experience folks struggle to find work

#27

Post by johnnyfaehell »

csmdev wrote: post #25
collyw wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work with 10 * 1 year guys at work - my team leader. I know more languages than him, and I still write better SQL than him (one of the things he does know). Making an effort to learn something new doesn't stop you specialising in other areas. Also sticking to a one set of technologies doesn't mean you will automatically get good at them.

Did you stop and think why he is the team leader and not you? Maybe having a deeper understanding of something is more important than playing with multiple things at once. Always switching technologies will get you only basic knowledge in each of them. Going past the surface requires daily use and years of constant evolution. That's how you become an expert in something. Deeper understanding. Not broader.

Being a good team leader and being a good developer aren't the same thing. You can be an amazing team leader but suck at being a developer. There are a lot of team leads that are team leads just because they got there first. I've seen one who struggled at basic problem solving.

However I get what you mean. The guy does seem to be a bit up himself.

Re: Ask HN: Why is that 10+ years experience folks struggle to find work

#28

Post by collyw »

csmdev wrote: post #25
collyw wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work with 10 * 1 year guys at work - my team leader. I know more languages than him, and I still write better SQL than him (one of the things he does know). Making an effort to learn something new doesn't stop you specialising in other areas. Also sticking to a one set of technologies doesn't mean you will automatically get good at them.

Did you stop and think why he is the team leader and not you? Maybe having a deeper understanding of something is more important than playing with multiple things at once. Always switching technologies will get you only basic knowledge in each of them. Going past the surface requires daily use and years of constant evolution. That's how you become an expert in something. Deeper understanding. Not broader.

He was in the right place at the right time and got lucky. Not through any competence.

Always switching technologies won't get you in depth knowledge, but it will show you different, possibly better approaches. I would say a bit of both experience, as well as learning new ways of doing things helps.

I learned Java at university. Inheritance and Polymorhpism were like black boxes until I learned Perl afterwards, and the mechanisms are there in front of you (OOP in Perl is a bit of a hack, but it makes it transparent how it works). That (and other features of Perl) helped my understanding of Java.

Re: Ask HN: Why is that 10+ years experience folks struggle to find work

#29

Post by collyw »

johnnyfaehell wrote: post #27
csmdev wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you stop and think why he is the team leader and not you? Maybe having a deeper understanding of something is more important than playing with multiple things at once. Always switching technologies will get you only basic knowledge in each of them. Going past the surface requires daily use and years of constant evolution. That's how you become an expert in something. Deeper understanding. Not broader.

Being a good team leader and being a good developer aren't the same thing. You can be an amazing team leader but suck at being a developer. There are a lot of team leads that are team leads just because they got there first. I've seen one who struggled at basic problem solving. However I get what you mean. The guy does seem to be a bit up himself.

Agreed, but he isn't good at that either!

Re: Ask HN: Why is that 10+ years experience folks struggle to find work

#30

Post by hcho »

csmdev wrote: post #20
hcho wrote: post #15

I suspect most 10+ years experience guys are actually 10 * 1 year experience guys. When you have someone like that in front of you in an interview, it is quite difficult to look past the fact that the person has no respect to his job.

So people that specialize in a field and become experts have no respect for the job. But the ones that hop around each year based on what's "hot" are better.

10 * 1 year people don't specialize in anything. They just repeat the first year experience 10 times.
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